Carlos Roque "Shotgun" Monzón vs. "Marvelous" Marvin Nathaniel Hagler - Definitive Classic Breakdown

I think Hagler had a good corner. His fundamentals and technique showed that. As many have pointed out, Hagler may lack confidence, but maybe he doesn't? I don't blame his corner for any lapses he might have shown in a few performances. I think fighters win and lose fights and the fighter is the one in the ring and he is not trying to get hit or lose. There are certain things a corner can help with, maybe one of them sees something the other fighter is doing with his hands, feet, eyes, etc. that the fighter has not seen yet. The corner can point that out and it might be something their fighter can use. From watching Hagler in the ring, he didn't seem to be a "thinking fighter", he seemed more of a "if you avoid my right hand when I throw it, I'll throw it harder and faster next time and see if it gets you." I might be completely wrong, he might be a guy who is thinking 5 steps ahead and setting traps? I just don't get that idea from watching him. He seemed like a checkers player in the ring.

Monzon, on the other hand had a "presence" in the ring, he gave off a feeling that he was going to win. Monzon never showed a lack of confidence and he seemed to be able to stay ahead of his opponent, if the opponent upped the tempo, Monzon could either up his, or slow the opponent. I also suspect that Monzon would figure out that Hagler's left hand was not as effective as his right hand. Monzon would probably exploit that as SRL and Dundee said they did. They said that they watched Hagler on video and figured out he was right handed and they decided to move toward Hagler's left regardless of which stance Hagler was using. I do suspect that Monzon was a "thinking fighter" and if you made a mistake while fighting him, he'd file it away and the next time you made the mistake, you'd pay. Monzon seemed like a chess player in the ring.

Some fighters are always thinking while they fight and are steps ahead, setting traps. FMJ is obviously that type of fighter. I suspect that Monzon was too.

 

You raise a good point about Hagler and I think it is accurate. He used his feet and his left hand to put him in positions to land his right hand. Certainly he hurt people with his left- he was a hard working professional fighter and he practiced punching people all day every day, but his game focused around his right hand.
And it focused on him imposing himself through his determination and his conditioning and his willingness to fight to win. Kind of like Marciano. Where he got himself in trouble was when he tried to outsmart other guys- Leonard and Duran were masters at that, true chess player, but I suspect his losses to Monroe and Watts fell along those lines. To his credit, Hagler adapted and beat those guys in rematches and, if I watched those fights, I would guess that he just imposed himself over their thoughtfulness, if that makes sense. It makes me curious to see how rematches with Duran and Leonard would have played out.
Thinking about it, it seems like Monzon would be a bad match for Hagler. Marvin would know that Monzon excelled at controlling range and the pace of a fight and he would be cautious of walking into traps and he would give up a lot of rounds before he started fighting.

 

Guys in this thread. I know we've been talking about a one off match up here, but how do you think the result would go in a trilogy? I really like thinking about some match ups like this as just one doesn't seem to prove who's the best between ATGs imo.

 

Wtf Carlos

 

Monzon would move to Hagler's left? That's exactly what Hagler always wanted.

 

Ultimately, this is what it came down to, but not by way of comparing their results— me watching a good bit of Monzon-Briscoe II to see how well Carlos held the distance and to what degree he was able to make the fight on his terms.

And while Carlos dominated on the scorecards, I noted that Briscoe was able to wade in and make Monzon uncomfortable at times (especially with the near-KD/KO in the ninth round).

Bad Bennie’s intermittent success sways me that Marvelous Marvin would find enough opportunity to keep Carlos from dictating terms. He’s of similar stature to Briscoe and way more versatile. MMH would be able to get close enough, often enough, to set an uncomfortable pace for Monzon and wear him down enough to close strong in the championship rounds.

No, Marv isn’t a 1:1 copy of Briscoe, but I think he’d have to press the action in a similar way to have a chance. Both had iron chins, so no KO either way (unless cuts come into play), and Marvin isn’t going to straight up outbox him. So he’s going to utilize every ounce of his skill and determination to make a real fight of it rather than a fencing match.

The southpaw/switching thing plays a role, allowing Hagler to find an edge in a crucial round or two in a very competitive scrap. Monzon gets the better of the middle rounds but not by large margins, with Marvelous able to step on the gas late with a busier approach.

Gimme MMH by decision.

 

Yea, one thing that was impressive regarding Monzon is his ability to think clearly late into fights when fatigue is a factor. The moment Briscoe caught him with that vicious right hand Carlos was about as hurt as a man could be yet kept his feet.
He composed himself instantly and immediately he looks up to his right. He was checking the clock to see exactly how much time he needed to buy. That was impressive awareness in the heat of battle and a clue as to why he was tough to beat.

 

Hagler's footwork was so underrated. He would show moving himself left and then pop up right.. time and again.. fine as a hair on a frogs ass. Fooled 'em to the tune of 9 KO's in 11 fights as middleweight champion? (or 10 of 12? used to have it memorized)

He didn't do that at all against Leonard. It looked like he was on the take.

 

Hamsho was one rough customer. Two southpaws going at it

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and the rematch

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very close fight for me.... both men had excellent chins and advantages over the other. Hagler southpaw style and aggression. Monzon could move on the outside and both men could punch. Monzon sometimes just put out enough to win but improved in rematches. Duran gave him a good fight and so Vito in the first fight, but Hagler had some excellent stoppages against Roldan, Mugabi and others. Monzon had some tough fights with Briscoe and others but also beat Rodrigo Valdes and Napoles Nino B.

This could be a trilogy. I see a distance fight with Monzon perhaps taking fight 1 with a rematch or 2 afterwards. Intangibles are big here.

Neither man fought an opponent like the other.

The venue/judges would obviously make a difference.

 

Why was Carlos Monzon a middleweight and not a light heavyweight?

 

What if a guy wants to name someone else's **** macho, would that be ok by you?