Bellew believes Usyk would’ve beaten Tyson

The root of our disagreement is that you rate AJ and Dubious far higher than I do. AJ's record has it's fair share of has beens of never were's (Charles Martin for a start) and his best win is against a 41 year old Wlad who managed to deck him. And this is all before Ruiz ruined him and then Dubois finished him.

And Dubious? Strong but limited and prone to quitting. What's he going to do when he can't force someone like Bruno back and has to contend with Franks ramrod jab continually smashing into his face? Or Spinks befuddling him? Or Holmes schooling him?

 

The above is a good and fair summation, since it really does boil down to the regard in which Joshua and Dubois are held - and it seems the gap in the range of views is a tad wide between the two opposite ends of the scale.

But, I strongly suspect neither of them could have inspired the paycheck collector's mentality of Tyson's day. Tyson's opposition would more likely view Joshua and Dubois as a means to securing future paydays, rather than as opportunities to cash out.

And, other than in his scrap with Wlad (who was by then, as you allude to, unable to push the envelope), Joshua either looked poor against or fell to people who came to 'fight'.

Your questions about Dubois are spot on, and if I had to guess, I'd suggest that Daniel relies too heavily on maintaining impetus as his motivational crutch. He can handle minor interruptions of momentum, but anyone who can place that in check for a couple of sequential rounds or more is likely to break his spirit.

That Dubois' stocks were notably raised by the demolition job he did on Joshua is somewhat of an irony here.

 

People don’t age the same

 

Great post.

 

I think its the opposite, neither AJ nor Dubois are THAT good, its just Tysons opposition sucked. Like 41 year old Wlad that AJ beat probably beats all those guys as well.

Dubois can be beaten by being forced back but Bruno can’t do it, he’ll be the one getting forced back. He’ll be the one struggling with Dubois’ jab. Spinks can’t stop Dubois from coming and old Larry can’t handle that much strength and power. Hell I’d even say AJ and Dubois are mentally stronger than Tysons opposition was.

 

Tyson is the ultimate casuals GOAT. Always has been and always will be. Some of the nonsense being sprouted here about Tyson taking Usyk out early. What a load of garbage! NOBODY in boxing history is taking Usyk out early. 90% of Tysons opponents were beaten psychologically before the opening bell. Usyk is a different kind of beast. He would laugh off Tysons pre-fight shenanigans. He'd negate Tyson for the first 5 rounds and then absolutely clean his clock for the remainder of the fight and score a late stoppage in the 11th or 12th round.

 

Name them, I'm not being smart but I think you're being very kind to Mike's resume.

 

I liked Bruno but prime AJ and Dubois are turning Bruno into Michaelangelos David, as happened a few times with Big Frank. They are both beating Tucker.

 

I don't think so.

Most of Tyson's opponents were not beaten before the opening bell. This is a myth.

How is Usyk going to negate Tyson? Tyson is considerably quicker with his feet and hands. Usyk has never dealt with that combination of speed and power. Usyk does not have the uppercuts to stop Tyson from coming in.

The dude who couldn't stop Chisora isn't stopping Tyson. He has nothing to keep Tyson off him.

 

Holyfield hadn’t scored a legit KO in about 5 before punching Tyson senseless. He couldn’t stop Alex Stewart, ancient Larry Holmes or chinny Michael Moorer hell he couldn’t even hurt or drop Bobby Czyz yet he had Tyson doing a drunken stumble all over the ring until the ref saved him.

Usyk has similar power to Holyfield which was plenty to hurt Tyson. He’d outbox, outmanoeuvre and wear Tyson down in a similar fashion to Holyfield. Usyk and Evander are different fighters but with similar mindsets and are both tougher, harder men than Tyson.

 

Holmes and Foreman were extremely durable.

Holyfield bullied Tyson physically and while Usyk is physically strong, he is not someone who bullies people physically. Not his style.

Holyfield not stopping someone in years is misleading. Holyfield had scored knockdowns over the ultra durable Mercer and badly hurt Bowe. IMO Holyfield was a slightly better puncher than Usyk. Also Holyfield was a lot more willing to trade. Holyfield had a bit of an offnight vs Moorer the first time and still dropped him. And the Holyfield who beat Tyson then went on to drop Moorer several times the next year.

Let's also not act as if 96 Tyson was the best version of Tyson. That version of Tyson couldn't hold a candle to the 86-88 version.

 

His 2nd fight at heavyweight, who was Tyson's 2nd fight at heavyweight against? Usyk has far better footwork than Tyson and superior boxing skill. How do you negate Tyson for 5 rounds, ****ing easy, it was done many times, clinch the **** out of him. All any great fighter needed to do against Tyson was just that. You move and you clinch for 5 rounds and then depending on your calibre as a fighter, you either go the distance and lose or you take over and that what Usyk would do and no, Tyson psyching dudes out before the fight is not a myth, it's my opinion and it's very much supported by fact.

 

Significantly harder and tougher than Tyson. Compared to those two greats, Mike is a mental midget. This business about Usyk not having an uppercut, so he would lose is laughable. I bet my bottom dollar if Usyk needed a game plan that included uppercuts in order to win, he'd ****ing have one.

 

Its not easy my friend. I don't think Usyk can keep Tyson off him. We will agree to disagree though.

 

Let's not act as if the 1996 version of Mike Tyson wasn't expected to crush Holyfield. Pretty sure that's why Holyfield was 14/1 against stopping Tyson in a two horse race ( Aussie odds ) . I know this because I bet on Holyfield, granted I got 7/1 odds head to head because my Dad put the bet on wrong!