Carlos Roque "Shotgun" Monzón vs. "Marvelous" Marvin Nathaniel Hagler - Definitive Classic Breakdown

Grateful to be invited and happy to have been able to contribute to the discussion.

 

I did vote via the poll a little while back. I checked and there is no longer an option for me to vote and I’m listed among those who picked Carlos via points. I haven’t yet made an actual comment to qualify my choice though. Cheers mate.

 

Grateful and a little astonished to have been included!! Thanks, Px

 

First, leave James Tony out of this.

Second, he’s not a lady!

 

Most of what can be said about a speculative Monzón–Hagler bout has already been excellently covered in many a fine post in this thread. Both were durable, strong, well-conditioned, and tactically versatile champions; each with a long reach and a cornerstone jab. This much is known. Thus, in abstract terms, there is little to separate them.

What perhaps matters more are the subtler dynamics. Hagler had the broader arsenal - southpaw stance, switch-hitting, Gazelle jab, and the ability to herd opponents in devastating fashion. He would almost certainly look like the winner through the first third of the fight, surprising Monzón with the speed and reach of his jab, his variety, and his forward motion.

Hagler, beyond being an offensive machine, was geared for capitalizing on the mistakes of his challengers and taking counterattacking opportunities. In particular, he thrived on moments of over-commitment by his opponents, demonstrating superb anticipation and timing.

However, Monzón rarely presented those kinds of openings, if he ever did, despite what I have come to think of as his 'ruse de guerre' --- looking slow, basic, even clumsy. Intentionally or otherwise, his outwardly awkward-looking appearance served as bait. Behind the facade and the staccato, off-beat rhythm, Monzón was picking clean shots, tying up inside, stepping back to reset, and countering on the back foot. His game was not to dominate exchanges but to let the other man believe he was gaining ground as they fed him the data he needed to assess and re-calibrate.

By the middle rounds, Hagler would be repeating tactics that yielded less and less return, while Monzón's timing, accuracy, and economy steadily increased over the course of the bout. The fifteen-round distance was Monzón's domain; and the fight would become a campaign of attrition in which he denies Hagler the clear scoring opportunities he requires.

And so, the pattern would hold. For Monzón, it is a case of *** "Will you walk into my parlor?" said the Spider to the Fly. *** Hagler obliges and looks stronger early, Monzón turns the tables mid-fight and makes it much clearer later on and down the stretch. And, when the scores are tallied, it is Monzón by that finest of margins.

 

Hi Buddy.
Excellent prognosis and intuitive breakdown of the most intriguing fantasy fight on the forum, I also have Monzon winning the fight, in much the way you outline in your word perfect post, for as long I have been a member, the appeal and appreciating his fighting, or more so his style of fighting, has fluctuated from the " he is boring " to " he is a master operator " I am firmly in the latter, I don't understand why others cannot see what I see, an implacable fighter that uses his advantages to the enth degree, for sure he is no Sweet Pea, but what he is, combines ternaticy with an iron will, and a unbending belief that he will win, no matter what, I would place him 3rd behind Greb and Robinson, with Hagler a very close 4th, and was so glad I grew up during his rein.
Once again thanks for your writings, have been a avid follower for some time.
stay safe buddy, chat soon.
Mike.

 

Dundee's opinion is on boxing is worth less to me then some posters here... he was a guy who wrapped hands and had connections he didn't know anything about fighting he was heralded as a great trainer and never denied it, people who saw Dundee in the gym noted how little he did Ali said he didn't teach him how to fight... Dupas, Basilio, Ellis and Pastrano had previous trainers who taught them how to box, Luis was built in Cuba, Leonard had his Olympic coaches... he was more like a moral booster / manager type then an authority on fighting but he DID help make his guys a lot of money.

 

Folks say a lot, especially about guys who did a lot for them… Leonard was likely being kind to a man who gave him a lot of other services IMO he also gave him credit in his book too but folks around the gyms who saw Dundee said he didn’t really do much. To quote Ali “Angelo didn’t teach me how to fight” I don’t like his slimy way of calling Luis Rodriquez “His guy” and saying things like “I trained a lot of fast guys” etc in the same sentence it’s why to this day dingbats put him on lists about the “best trainers ever” and guys like Miller, Whitey and Goldman are “honourable mentions” poster boy for stealing credit in boxing by the REAL teachers.

 

Yep.. sure enough.. Hagler is underrated, believe it or not. Too bad he had to live with that Ray Leonard thing for the rest of his life (rematch: Leonard gets knocked silly. oh, well..).