Ali vs Liston 2, discussion thread

He lost to Ali because he wasn't close to as good he died because he was a junkie there is very little reason to believe a conspiracy unless you're a romantic.

 

The punch was a pivot to the right in an aberration for Ali justa short right hand... nothing to see here lol just romantics and amateur poets who are in love with the perverse weirdo impersonating a cop to pull women over, a guy who'd likely mug them in person for there petty change. People love a tragic "hero" but he was not he was an addict, a very good HW boxer and a mob cash cow nothing more. As a man kind of a pathetic figure really as a human being, an example of a proper bully he was no Patterson that's a man... perhaps tragic because he was a result of bad parenting and poverty but there is a million like him in that regard.

 

This is somewhat off the (tired) subject but . . . It was often said by people who knew Liston that he was terrified of hypodermic needles, and therefore he was unlikely to have used narcotics. Maybe so. But he was an ex-con, frequently stopped and harassed by police. I would bet that sometimes the cops ordered him to roll up his sleeves to check his arms for tracks. What I think he really feared wasn't the needle, but that the marks left by a flu shot or vaccination, or any innocent type of injection would give police cause to jail him on suspicion. And then the attendant newspaper publicity would bury him.

If he really did use heroin, he would probably have chosen to snort it. And if, near the end of his career he injected it, then he simply didn't care anymore.

He didn't die from a hot shot. Had he been murdered in that fashion, his killers would have pumped a lethal dose into his arm. But the coroner concluded that although there were traces of morphine in his body, it wasn't enough to kill him. I believe he died of natural causes, such as a heart attack or stroke. That's what the coroner's autopsy concluded, I think accurately. We know he suffered from hypertension. Swelling ankles. Bad habits. Alcoholism. This was not a healthy man.

 

He said he could have got up but chose not to because Ali was a nut who would wallop him on the way up .

 

I'll put this here

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The key to this whole thing is Liston seemed ready to go. Walcott didn’t count him out but the side did. Should have been Walcotts call and the fight should have continued. If you notice they did start again till it was stopped,

 

Though the fight was brief, Ali looked as sharp as he ever did in his prime.

Quite light at about 206 lbs but with greater muscle definition and mass - both moving and punching insanely fast. Literally gliding around the ring.

We were robbed of the likely all time great display Ali was going to put on if the fight had been of longer duration.

Liston physical appearance at about 215 lbs looked reasonable - but footage of him training just prior to the postponement saw him looking that much trimmer, toned and well conditioned - heading for a weight of about 209 lbs for the originally scheduled bout in later ‘64.

 

Just imagine if something similar had happened during that 14 seconds of the Dempsey - Tunney second fight! As the Doge Dog would say: "Much WOW!"