Is Wladimir Klitschko a favorite over prime George Foreman and Sonny Liston H2H

Wlad fixed his problem with pacing and Larry fixed his problem with southpaws by not fighting any.

 

I doubt very much that Wlad neutralises Shavers as effectively as Holmes did.Over 23 rounds Larry lost only
1 round on one referee's card.Holmes even won the 7th round in which Shavers knocked him down because
he recovered so brilliantly to actually win the round.
Why would Holmes hesitate to fight Sanders ? Holmes fought Shavers twice and Ken Norton with an
injured bicep.No way would Holmes dodge fighting Sanders.
Speaking of Sanders you say he would be a live underdog vs Holmes.Maybe,maybe not.However there
is absolutely no way a seasoned version of Holmes loses to Corrie in 2 rounds !

 

Wlad lands first on Shavers but Holmes beats Sanders on points with a few rocky moments along the way is how I see it.

 

Big brother Vitali fixed Wladmir's problem with Southpaw Sanders.

 

Shavers is to slow for Wlad. Wlad would eat him up. Foreman on the other hand prime was snappy quick with his power in prime. I don’t think Wlad does well at all with him. Prob a fast KO within 3.

 

And Samuel Peter was fast ?

 

Who won those fights?

 

Not an unreasonable view but given how vulnerable Wlad was in the first Sanders fight he could well
have some very uncomfortable moments against Earnie.Plus of course there is the Sanders fight which
again highlights how risky it would be for Wlad to fight Shavers.
The analysis of Holmes v Sanders is plausible,with the proviso that Holmes would win rather than get
stopped in 2 rounds.

 

And who is saying that Wlad wouldn't be caught by Mr Shavers ?

 

He prob would and could. But I don’t see how Wlad doesn’t stop him here.

 

1. Wlad wouldn’t require 23 rounds with Shavers.
2. Sanders was dangerous. With rare exceptions, you either took it and outlasted him like Rahman and Vitali, or got stream rolled like Wlad, Cole, Cooper, and others.

*Nate Tubbs caught him early and he outboxed Purrity and J. Nelson.

 

1) Sorry to keep harking back to this but Holmes doesn't get stopped by Sanders.Nor does
he get stopped by Brewster or Puritty.Ok he may require 23 rounds with Shavers but you
know,I think I prefer Holmes's history.
2) Sanders was dangerous.........so was Shavers !

 

The point is if Wlad is caught by Shavers there is a very real chance he goes down and stays down
for the count.
Ok, I know it's hard to precisely judge the punching power of individual fighters but I strongly suspect that
Shavers is a harder puncher than Peter.

 

I did address your game plan by pointing out that it wouldn't work against Wlad. That bullying strategy was effective against smaller opponents Foreman could shove around and walk down because they couldn't do anything to keep him off them but Wlad is a completely different fighter. He has the power to keep Foreman honest and the size that Foreman wouldn't be able to bully.

You're talking about Foreman's parrying like he was some defensive master, he wasn't. He got hit plenty in both the Norton and Frazier fights. The difference was that neither of them had the power to make him pay for it. Wlad has that power in spades, so a strategy of walking his opponent down just wouldn't work against a hard accurate puncher who would make Foreman pay anytime he tried to get close.

You keep bringing up that even Ali couldn't maintain distance against Foreman, but you're missing the context. Ali didn't maintain distance because he chose not to. He had a specific game plan to fight off the ropes and let Foreman exhaust himself. That doesn't magically mean it's the only way to beat him. Wlad entire arsenal is designed to beat fighters like Foreman, there's nothing Foreman brings to the table that would surprise him.

The difference is that Wlad uses his size and technique to completely shut people down, tying up their arms and leaning on them, giving them no space to land anything hard. Ali's wasn't able to total shutdown Foreman because Foreman was simply too big and strong for him to control that way, which is why Ali had to eat those body shots. But it still did the job of tiring Foreman out and limiting his offense. So the question is, what is Foreman going to do against a bigger, stronger man tying him up when he couldn't even stop a smaller man from doing the same?

And you don't even need some lenient referee for this to work. A normal ref, like the one they had for the Ali-Foreman fight who allowed all of Ali's clinches, would be more than fine. The only way Foreman has a chance is if you create some fantasy referee that bans clinching entirely but I think we can both admit that's a complete fantasy scenario.

Bottom line: there's not much Foreman can do here. He's facing a bigger fighter with the power to keep him honest, who he can't bully, can't walk down and who can completely neutralize him on the inside. He'd have to totally reinvent his style just to have a chance.

 

Literally all of this is wrong.

Claiming he got hit plenty by Frazier and Norton when both matches were under 2 rounds is comedy. Seriously, did you even watch these fights?

No one said Foreman was a defensive wizard, you're not responding to what I'm saying at all. I never suggested Foreman would easily parry all of Wladmir's shots. I even entertained the possibility Foreman could fail to take away Wladmir's jab. It's as if you're talking to yourself. Fighters inferior to Foreman made Wladmir have trouble landing his jab.

Not once in my post did I say Foreman would simply bully and shove Wladmir around. This is why McGrain stopped talking to you. Try to actually respond to what someone said. I said Foreman could stalk him trying to cut the ring off, go to the body, parry his jab, and time him with overhand rights and uppercuts. There is no need for Foreman to "reinvent" his style, that is EXACTLY what he did in NUMEROUS fights, some of which I posted and you apparently didn't bother watching...!

And I repeat: if Wladmir is prevented by the ref tying up or leaning on Foreman, he is going to have a hard time dealing with the body shots and high pressure style. Unless Wladmir can keep Foreman at arm's length with the jab and crack him hard from long range consistently with 1-2's, this would be a difficult fight. Wladmir is not that great defensively outside of clinching and retreating. That isn't a slight on Wladmir, it's an objective observation dozens of posters have made. No, you wouldn't need to ban clinching. For the second time: Ali still got hit by tons of body shots in spite of all the clinching and grappling! Wladmir was NOT better than Ali defensively. Him being taller with longer arms doesn't magically mean he'll have to take less punishment than Ali to the body.

You're correct, Ali gave up on using his legs and uses the ropes because he would have tired himself out constantly moving to take 2-3 steps for every 1 step Foreman took to cut the ring off. The man himself tells you why he chose to fight on the ropes, and you want to argue and put your own spin on things. Wladmir being even heavier than Ali with worse stamina isn't going to have the luxury to simply move around the ring all night. This is common sense.

Seriously, actually read what someone wrote and address that before typing up another essay.