Is Wladimir Klitschko a favorite over prime George Foreman and Sonny Liston H2H

Would you say that elite clinching was an attribute of Bernard Hopkins ?

Or Andre Ward ?

 

Could you please expand on your definition of "elite clinching"? It's a term to which I have only just recently been introduced.

 

I only heard of it when I read your post about five minutes ago.

 

IMHO...

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Lennox Lewis
4. George Foreman
5. Rocky Marciano
6. Larry Holmes
7. Joe Frazier
8. Mike Tyson
9. Sonny Liston
10. Wladimir Klitsche

 

And yet, you were able to name other boxers to whom the term might apply?

OK.


It seems to have originated it here:

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...sonny-liston-h2h.741035/page-30#post-23547378

 

Now imagine Foreman eating Lyle’s right hand except it’s Wlad.

 

Why would that be the least bit mystifying ?

One can look at the words in a term and come to some kind of conclusion as to what those words mean.

Ward and Hopkins are considered elite.

And they have both been known to clinch, sometimes excessively.

Hence my remarks / questions.

It was indeed Zulander in your link above, who seems to have coined the term earlier in this thread.

Then there is this from themaster458 in post # 341 of this thread.

"...fighters like Mayweather, Hopkins, or Ward use the clinch strategically to nullify offense, control distance, and reset the action, they are often praised as "crafty," "veterans," or having high ring IQ."

So I think from the foregoing, we can form an opinion as to then meaning of the term.

 

Maybe, if it was applied Muay Thai.

 

It was applied to boxing.

Her I a fuller version of what the poster said:

"That's a fair point about the evolution of refereeing, but it doesn't address the inconsistency in how fans perceive it. When modern fighters like Mayweather, Hopkins, or Ward use the clinch strategically to nullify offense, control distance, and reset the action, they are often praised as "crafty," "veterans," or having high ring IQ. Yet, when Wladimir did essentially the same thing, using the clinch to shut down his opponent's offense when he needed to, it was overwhelmingly criticized. My issue isn't with disliking the tactic, it's with the double standard. If we're going to criticize Wlad for it, then to be consistent, we should apply the same criticism to the others who built their careers on similar tactics."

 

OK. Let me put it another way, and hopefully answer your initial inquiry of me.

There is no such thing as "elite clinching" in boxing.

 

Apparently there is.

If what you say is true, then every single referee who officiated at a Ruiz fight was incompetent and most of those who reffed a BHop fight or a Ward fight were also incompetent.

It seems to be a part of the game.

 

And, what did I say that would naturally follow that "

This content is protected

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I suspect you've extrapolated way more from my comment on the topic than is justified, and then somehow managed to conflate what you have imagined. To what end, only you can know.

However, I can tell you categorically that I have never heard the term "elite clinching" applied to Ruiz, Hopkins or Ward.

 

I would apply it to them.

 

How very unsurprising.

Could you please tell me how "elite clinching" has factored into your scoring of fights?


In your own time...


I'll wait...

 

It doesn't. Just like elite footwork is not factored into scoring by itself.