Do you consider Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua to be all time greats ?

They beat Klitschko

 

Fury fringe great, 3rd tier with guys like Moorer and Bowe.

AJ no.

 

Depends on your definition of All Time Great. It is a very loose and over used term and is interpreted differently by different people.

 

AJ can't be since he lost to Ruiz in a bad, bad way. And he lost to Usyk too. And Wlad was just doing a last fight with him, and afterwards didn't want a rematch because the fire was gone, which tells us how much he had left.

Fury could have been if he'd beaten Usyk or maybe if he'd lost to Usyk but won the Haye fight or won a Wlad rematch or beaten AJ before Ruiz. The problem for Fury is that he didn't have too many to fight when he came back that would increase his status. It was basically just Usyk and AJ, then AJ didn't want that Christmas fight to save himself for Dubious, then got smashed and now is considered past it. So Fury really needed that Usyk win.

I'm not an expert but I think the lesson for Fury is if you want to beat someone like Usyk, don't hire an imbecile trainer who has no clue what your assets are and don't make a circus fight with a roiding KO artist months before that career defining fight.

 

I'd put Fury above the likes of Riddick Bowe and Vitali Klitschko

But below Joe Frazier and Michael Moorer

AJ in and around Vitali sort of level

So whatever you would take from that

 

They are Top 25 heavyweights if we stretch the list enough. Is it an ATG level?

 

No, not even in the top 25.

Fury gave up his chance at greatness when he first retired. He could have been the man of the division and made it into his era, but he walked away.
Joshua was a champion from 2016 to 2021, with a little hiccup, so roughly 5 years. He has not been a champ for the last 4 years now, but had he been then he could have carved himself a good legacy.

 

Joshua also never earned a claim to the lineage which hurts his historical standing.

 

Riddick Bowe was better than Fury and Moorer.

 

Similar, weak resumes.

 

Where is the “HELL NO!!!” option?

 

Absolutely not. I think they both may squeak into the HOF though......................

ATG >>>>>>> HOF

 

No.

 

Neither are ATG, they were the best of a bad bunch.
Fury could have been borderline if he didn’t go awol as been mentioned, and he probably gives more problems to better fighters throughout heavyweight history with the old jittery weird style he used to have.
He seems to have spent half his career fighting Chisora and Wilder as well.

AJ is even lower, never recovered from losing to Ruiz and didn’t really do a lot before that, Povetkin and Wlad his best wins were both 40 or close.

 

Fury could get in there with all of the division excluding Usyk and toy with them as could Usyk. He is an ATG. Wlad was easy work. Chisora was a fun day out. Wilder at that time was an unstoppable force who met an immovable object.

Fury's elbow are shot but he still performed against Usyk and he'll defintely fight atleast once more.