Is Joe Louis stand in the ATG rankings based on his opposition or his accomplishments?

If we go by accomplishments as in what they did. 25 title defenses to me makes him the greatest.

But for me, I only care about who you beat. So for me Ali is the greatest.

So in terms of resume,how does Joe look? I do know he did beat Schmeling and he was a good fighter and Walcott was pretty good although I blame him for his incompetencence in Ali Liston 2.

Who else did Joe beat that was on Alis level of oposition

 

His opponents weren't as good as Ali's ( not many s were) but he's a great for me because of the length of time he remained champion.
Getting 25 defence s is no easy task, even if some of the opposition wasn't Grade 1 .
He made it look almost too easy as well, most of the time.

 

As I said, if we go by accomplishments. Ali is not very high on the list of greats. He did get olympic gold though , but being 3 time world champion means you also lost it 2

 

You don't think Ali is very high on list of greats?

 

As far as accomplishments go. Nope.

As far as who he beat he is nr.1 And who you beat is my criteria of who is the best.
But as far as accomplishments go. He isn't really that good

 

If you like quality of opposition then give it to Ali, but if you prefer consistency, then consider giving it to Louis.

 

Very, very consistent, and the prototype of a modern boxer.

 

Actually, Ali only
loss it once in a boxing ring.
He also defended the championship (19) times, which is the
3rd most in boxing history.
You admit he fought the best competition of any heavyweight
(Which is true)
But he's still not very high on your list of ATG's?

 

Probably nobody. I'd say even Holmes' title fight opposition was more difficult overall than Louis' if you look at them side by side. Also, I wouldn't knock Ali for losing it twice. He fought in a far more difficult era, and probably would have reigned for 20 years vs. Al Ettore, Nathan Mann, Galento and the like that Louis had the privilege of facing.

Not doubting Louis' greatness, but if there was ever a time for a great fighter to come around and rack up 25 title defenses, it was exactly when Louis did it.

 

I consider FOTC as his loss of the title.

Muhammad Ali is the greatest heavyweight that ever lived (I say he was the best fighter ever based on resume) And Resume is what I judge a fighter on.

BUT when you look at what he accomplished. He didn't accomplish much different than other basic champions
-Mike Tyson at 20 became the youngest heavyweight champion, at 21 he unified the title and by 22 he cleared out his entire division. In 3 whole years Mike Tyson cleared out his entire heavyweight divsiion leaving no doubt who was the best.
-George Foreman became the oldest heavyweight champion
-Joe Louis had 25 defenses
- Evander Holyfield came from Cruiserweight and fought everyone at heavyweight and they were natrually bigger guys

Now what did Ali do?
- Became 3 times heavyweight champion.....which meant he lost twice. Because in my book Ali was still the champion in the FOTC and Frazier must have felt that too

 

I know but he still did have 25 defenses. He is not on Ali's level based on opposition.
But the man still had 25 defenses.

A lot of champions slip up against weaker opposition way earlier.
Mike got knocked out by Douglas
Lennox got knocked out by Rahman
Wlad was knocked out by Sanders (Wlad has had like 20 something defenses as well).

You can't blame heavyweights really on one hand, because this is one of the most unpredictable divisions in the sport. But at the same time, Louis did have 25 consecutive defenses. Somewhere he should have slipped up earlier but didnt

 

Ali did it twice, lol. In the 60's and 70's.