Is Sonny Liston the most well rounded heavyweight ever on film?

Still spewing out the same old garbage about Sonny lacking heart.Who would care about Sonny's jab ?
Your hero would as Sonny's jab makes his face look like it had been through a meat-grinder.

 

This is one of those questions where at least for some, there is an outstanding pick that might seem to go without saying - at least for me, it is Joe Louis but then there is still the rest.

Among the rest, I think Liston is right up there amongst the most well rounded and not really miles behind Louis at any rate.

IMO, the defining difference might be Louis’ prime hand speed.

As Joe slowed with age, you might see a more equitable comparison between him and Liston.

 

Which other HW champions quit on the stool? He’d have to be pretty low on the list for having the most “heart” ya know? Marciano on the other hand…

 

You are on a rampage

 

So the only ways for a fighter with the ability to become heavyweight champion in those days were:

* Be Rocky Marciano

* Have an insanely brave manager

* Be from Sweden

* Join a religious group

* Win an Olympic gold medal

Other than that, you had to give two Mafia guys majority interest in your management contract. Poor Sonny just couldn’t catch a break … if only he’d been a Swede, lol.

Yes, selling out to the Mafia (a) got him out of prison, as he was paroled to a St. Louis mobster, and (b) helped move his career along faster.

But he could have said ‘no thank you, I don’t like being in prison but I’ll do my time and keep boxing in the program here and I’ll find myself a non-criminal manager when I get out and try to do it the hard way. Despite mob influence, the mob obviously did not control the heavyweight title (except when Sonny held it) during that time or Rocky, Floyd, Ingo, Ali, Frazier and Foreman never would have gotten near it.

And that’s not to mention all the not-mobbed-up guys who got title shots in those days who didn’t win it (fighting Rocky and Floyd, etc) but could have if they’d have beaten the champ. Liston could have done the same without the mob behind him.

So Sonny the felon decided to cast his lot with other felons and take the easy way. Just like he took the easy way out against Ali twice.

Wow, what upstanding moral character and fiber this fella Liston had.

It’s true what they say: boxing doesn’t build character … it reveals it. Boxing exposed Sonny for exactly what he was.

 

They should have convinced Sonny that Ali was a policeman. Then he’d have really let loose.

 

If Liston onlyhad the string of geriatrics, lightheavies and white dopes that Marciano faced he would still be champion.

When did Rocky ever have to test his "heart" against something close to a physically prime Clay/Ali? What he faced was much closer to the Berbick version of Ali.

 

Is that the best you can do.Hope you didn't spend too much time on this.

 

Oh my word.Have you any idea just how naive you appear to be with this nonsense.Are you seriously suggesting that Sonny Liston had exactly the same life choices as the other guys
we're talking about ? Seriously ?

 

Will you stop.

What compels you to say the guy who assaulted police officers, committed armed robberies, had multiple DUI and other arrests is the victim?

He came up poor. He wasn’t educated. Lots of boxers and countless other people have had similar circumstances and did not choose to be criminals or align themselves with the mob — and there’s zero indication whatsoever that he regretted any of these life choices or made them reluctantly.

Sonny wasn’t a victim. Sonny was a perpetrator.

 

What compels you to say 'there’s zero indication whatsoever that he regretted any of these life choices or made them reluctantly'?
You've berated someone for making assumptions, and then done the same.

 

Foreman said more than that about training with Liston. He also said he couldn't move Liston in the ring, that Liston was stronger than him in the strongman type workouts they'd do (one thing he cited was filling a wheelbarrow with heavy bricks then pushing it up a big hill). And this was old man Liston. Highly impressive.

 

People born into **** life situations are much more likely to end up on the wrong side of the law. It wasn't just that he was poor. He was brought up beaten and used for physical labor by his parents, seemed like he had zero loving interactions with them. That really ****s people up, far worse than simply being poor.

Unless you believe that life experiences have no influence on one's mental state and one's impulse control?

I don't make excuses for what a grown ass man does. But I can understand what led to them being the type of person they are. Horrible parenting really ****s people up.l

 

I love how people drag AJ and Fury through the pavement for thinking money first and being annoying but Liston is appearantly a lion among men for literally breaking the law lmao

 

Hurt people hurt people.