Usyk gets a time machine, does he clear the top level of every era and go undefeated

I'll bite. Beating Joshua x2 and Fury x2 as the undersized underdog away from home are excellent wins- there's no doubt about that, so I'm not even going to debate with you on that, because it isn't up for debate to anyone who has eyesight and is unbiased. Dubois x 2 are good wins too. What the hell has 55 years ago got to do with anything anyway. Boxing isn't all about race or nationality, or whatever your ulterior motive to troll is.

It feels like there's fans like you who always have to say 'weak division' any time Europeans dominate a division, or do the nostalgia thing and take a time machine to try to find someone better. It's pathetic and makes you look bitter.

Oh what a surprise! You thought the Klitschko era was weak too, too predictable

 

I'd have loved to see him vs a young Tyson fury

 

Yeah, well Ali is considered the unbeatable GOAT despite getting knocked down by 185 lb Henry Cooper, going life and death vs 185 lb Doug Jones, and his performance considered to be the best was against a Cleveland Williams who'd had his kidney and a large part of his intestine removed, and nerve damage/paralysis in the hip after getting shot by a cop.

And rewatching the Liston and Zora Folley fights, they (imo) looked very suspect.

Ali's best wins are Foreman, Norton and Frazier. Would Norton and Frazier even break the top 30 rankings in HW today?

 

your poll is ass

 

Well said, squire.


Let's drink to it!

 

Usyk was the favourite going into both rematches; he also has millions of fans in the UK. The "back yard" mentality is completely overstated with Usyk. His cruiserweight run saw him go to more hostile places, and even then, it was nothing compared to the old school. Marvin Hagler destroyed Alan Minter in front of a largely racist crowd and got bottled out of the arena. That's an excellent win away from home in front of a hostile crowd.

Joshua was damaged goods after losing to Ruiz; he's never been the same. Fury nearly lost to a cagefighter and got dropped in the fight before Usyk. He'd also ballooned up to 28 stone and spent 3 years going on cocaine and alcohol binges. I'm not saying they weren't A-grade names of their era, but the context of when he fought them is extremely important. Don't get me started on Dubois, Jesus Christ, zero ring IQ, no head movement, defensively inept, made Joe Joyce look like Larry Holmes, would end up in a wheelchair in any other era.

After he sparked Bellew, Usyk started to gain a big casual fanbase in England. At the second Joshua fight, there were thousands of people cheering for him. The idea that he's some hated overseas fighter is bull****; everyone loves him. I actually don't know anyone who dislikes Usyk in the UK. The 2nd Fury and Joshua fights were both in Saudi Arabia as well; there was no home advantage.

The Klitschko era was weak; it was absolutely dreadful. You only need to dissect the top 10 at multiple stages of the Klitschko reign to see how poor it was. The Fury/Joshua era was also extremely weak. For context, the Larry Holmes era was also extremely weak, as was the Joe Louis era. There's no agenda here, most weight divisions only have 1 or 2 golden eras, and to pretend the Klitschko era was one of them is ridiculous.

I have Usyk #2 P4P behind Crawford and the 2nd greatest CW of all time. I'd have him in the top 15 HWs of all time, too. No agenda here; I'm just not buying into this idea he's the terminator because he beat a load of B-rate Brits. Believe it or not, there are some people out there who think Usyk isn't indestructible and that you can critcize him and respect him at the same time.

 

Only in the weakest eras that were weaker then his. Usyk could run the table pre 1909 and the pre Liston 50s but theres like a 100 guys you could plug into these eras who'd either run the table or come close. He would have a chance of going undefeated against Holmes and Lennox's resume. But Holmes and Lennox did not clear out their eras nor did they go unbeaten. Fighters don't go unbeaten clearing out strong eras.


Looking how few fights and how many rounds hes dropped Usyk is undefeated in his era because he hasn't fought much. Most of his fans would agree btw if they were talking about anyone else with his resume. Everyone and their mother at HW was 20 something and 0 in this era.

 

There is no fighter in history........................let me again say, in history, that could hop in a time machine and take on the murderers row of every era in their respective division and come out undefeated. No one. Not one fighter ever.

 

Lol, "So, no, I don't have my fight, do I, you f----- prat?"

Anyway, my take:

2000s:

Wladimir Klitschko (Usyk UD)
Vitali Klitschko (VK SD)
Alexander Povetkin (Usyk UD)
Chris Byrd (Usyk late TKO)

Usyk goes 3-1

90s:

Lennox Lewis (Lewis SD)
Evander Holyfield (Usyk SD)
Mike Tyson (Usyk late TKO)
Riddick Bowe (draw)

Usyk goes 2-1-1

80s:

Larry Holmes (Usyk SD)
Mike Tyson (Usyk UD)
Michael Spinks (Usyk UD)
Tim Witherspoon (Usyk late TKO)
Gerry Cooney (Usyk late TKO)

Usyk goes 5-0

70s:

Muhammad Ali (Usyk UD)
Joe Frazier (Usyk UD)
George Foreman (Usyk UD)
Ken Norton (Usyk late TKO)

Usyk goes 4-0

60s:

Muhammad Ali (Usyk SD)
Sonny Liston (Usyk TKO)
Joe Frazier (Usyk UD)
Eddie Machen (Usyk TKO)
Cleveland Williams (Usyk KO)

Usyk goes 5-0

------

Overall record:

W=19 (8 KO's), L=2, D=1

A few notes:

Ali - this one hurt as Ali is my favourite HW ever, but yes I do think he beats both versions of Ali listed, and no I'm not sorry for thinking that. He has more trouble with the 60s version, but the less mobile 70s version I think he beats by fairly wide UD.

Lewis - self-explanatory here. Lewis's complete arsenal and size gets the job done, getting enough work done early before Usyk takes the later rounds - which isn't enough to prevent the Lewis UD.

Tyson - I'm comfortable with my choices here. The 80s version does well early and has Usyk perhaps in a slight bit of trouble, but the Usyk takeover from the mid-rounds onwards means a close but clear UD. I can see Usyk wearing out the 90s version comfortably en-route to a TKO.

Bowe - interestng one this, can see them both sharing a couple of early rounds apiece and this continuing throughout the fight, hence the draw.

Wlad - yes WK had good success against southpaws, apart from Sanders that is. I can see Usyk's constant movement being a problem for WK, who never gets comfortable.

Vitali - got a feeling VK just won't respect the power of Usyk enough to be kept at bay. VK to be on front foot all night soaking up whatever Usyk throws and controlling range, etc. Not an easy night for Usyk this.

 

That’s just a nothing statement.

 

Again?

Really?


The answer is obviously: No.

Every great fighter has a ceiling and a stylistic nemesis.

Everybody.


He easily beat AJ.

He comfortably beat Fury.

Yet he barely beat Breidis.


That’s the beauty of the sport.


We’ve just seen Terence put in a masterclass against Canelo, yet he struggled with Madramov, 2 divisions lower.

We saw Floyd also put in a masterclass against Canelo, before then struggling with a B level Maidana just a year later.


Usyk is a genius. But he’s only fought 5 HW’s, no prime greats and is vulnerable on the inside.

Therefore, it’s not likely that he could have gone through all of those guys, with Mike being an awful stylistic match up for him.

 

Just for fun:

Let's imagine in 20 years the best heavyweight ever comes along and we assume he wins 9 out of 10 times against each of the 40 best fighters ever. (Including Ali, Lewis, Holmes, Tyson, Klitschko, everyone)

We ask the same question: can he beat them all?

His chances are 0.9^40 which is about
1.5%