How good was Liston in Ali vs Liston 1?

Hard to say, Ali was levels above.

 

Seeing a lot of hoop jumping… he looked basically the same as ever, just got whooped by Ali because he wasn’t on that level he threw his left hand plenty he wasn’t crippled prior just beat bad on the night.

 

Well even Ali himself said Liston was 40 yrs old if he was a day

 

I don't know how old Sonny was in Miami but whatever age he was add 5-7 years to it because of his life outside the ring.

In the fight with Ali, Sonny was strong early he just couldnt catch Ali. I believe he thought he would score an easy KO. Liston was in what they call 3 round shape. After that its time to blind the kid with a substance.

He couldn't really hurt Ali when he was temporarily blinded. Sonny was gassed it seemed.

 

He was great, probably just past his peak.

No other heavyweight would have beaten him at that point imo. The Liston who lost the heavyweight title to Ali would have stopped more than a few future ATGs. His jab definitely landed had an effect on Ali, and this is despite the fact that the latter might have been the greatest on his feet...period.

To be clearer, Ali's hand and foot speed were superb at that point in time. The fact that Liston had him in trouble more than a couple of times is testimony to what a solid match up it was.

But that's just my opinion.

 

This content is protected

 

I think Liston was still very formidable but for that one fight, he was below his substantive potential.

He took Ali far too lightly, expecting a KO by say round 4. The younger, closer to prime Liston wasn’t so complacent.

I could be wrong but at 218 lbs, Sonny was at his career heaviest or close enough to.

Like Foreman, KO artist Sonny also had relatively few rounds under his belt over the last few years going into the Ali fight. So, less than ideal ring time and growing self vibe of invincibility.

So, even though still dangerous, I might say that in view of Liston’s specific lack of full prep and overconfidence for the fight - perhaps throw in pre existing injury also, he was perhaps at his most vulnerable as at the time.

I could muse that the version of Machen who Liston fought and decisively beat in 1960 might’ve done a lot better against the Sonny who turned up in Miami in ‘64 - particularly given that Miami Liston was likely to gas badly in the second part of the fight if it had gone that far.

Liston was trained to the second,
very edgy and angry for the rematch that was originally scheduled for Boston - Sonny was likely to arrive at the fight at about 209 lbs - I think he was already confirmed to be about 211-212 lbs a few days prior to the fight….but then came Ali’s 11th hour hernia and the postponement…

Liston might’ve appeared relatively svelte for the rematch in Lewiston, but he was still 215 lbs, just 3 lbs lighter than Miami and he didn’t appear as well conditioned/toned as he was for the originally scheduled match.

Post Miami, I think that Liston’s gas tank appeared to be substantively reduced. A far cry from the guy who boxed 12 rounds against Machen while still looking like he could easily go another 3 rounds.

If the KOs came before say round 8-9, which they basically did for post Miami Sonny, then all well and good but Liston could be seen to flagging a bit around the 5-7 round mark - even when they stopped the Scrap Iron Johnson fight, Sonny looked to be already puffing hard.

If Scraps hadn’t been so badly beaten up to and by the time of the stoppage, if the fight had somehow gone a few more rounds, it’s not impossible that things might’ve turned badly for Sonny.