Who would you place higher in all time p4p list? Usyk or Crawford?

Usyk fought at the heaviest two divisions he ever could fight in but why ignore that they aren't the LIGHTEST divisions he could fight in? Lose some weight, fatty. Stop eating so much cake, fight at light heavyweight.

 

While Usyk fought a drug damaged Fury, there's no denying Fury was focused and prepared for the fight. He gave a good account of himself and showed great skill in the fight. Would he, could he, should he have been better without drugs and alcohol? Obviously. Nonetheless, Usyk beat a man who had never been beaten, and never been close to beaten when locked in.

Canelo is a cash cow whose milk has run dry. He's not as good a win as undefeated Fury and isn't close to as dynamic a fighter. Crawford is a very good fighter, but he spent most of his career locked in contract disputes, inactive, fighting lesser opposition, having his "mega fight" against post-crash Spence. If Crawford had the potential to show he was as good or slightly better than Usyk, he didn't show it in the ring.

 

Wladimir was inactive and past it against Joshua, and yet, because he showed up big, many feel it's Joshua's best win.

You have to factor in how they looked on the night. Fury was great in the first Usyk fight, gutsy and tried different tactics. Canelo looked awful against Crawford, ineffectually following him with a two to three punch arsenal. He's looked that way against opponents who were there just for the paycheck like Charlo.

The Fury from Usyk 1 is a tough night for most HW's in history. The Canelo who lost to Crawford is losing to a bunch of SMW's.

 

The Ngannou fight is a non-factor. Most who scored it felt Fury edged things, plus he was in poor condition.

Usyk beating Fury was special because of the clear disadvantages. Fury was at the helm of the consensus that the biggest HW's are here to rule. Then we saw the way Usyk regained control in rounds 7-9. As poor as Fury's reign was, we all know he has many good qualities. Canelo, by comparison, has always had questionable stamina, and in recent times has been very basic, not at all looking like a top P4P guy.

 

For me the decider is that Crawford has said "thanks, but no thanks" to facing a larger opponent while Usyk has done nothing else for the last 5 years.

 

Usyk. Bud was seemingly bigger, stronger, faster, more powerful, and more stamina than Canelo. He even had the longer reach and height. When he was supposed to be the one moving up. No advantage whatsoever from his opponent for him to overcome.

 

Very good post. I dislike canelo's career maneuvering and pick usyk over crawford, but your post is absolutely bang on and has to be taken into consideration.

Personally, I feel that the version of canelo that fought crawford looked okay-good, but fury looked really good against usyk, making great adjustments and looking in his prime in the fight, with a high workrate. Usyk had to overcome the exteme weight and reach of a fighter known to box and move really well and did so brilliantly. (And did so against Joshua and Dubois, too, btw)

Crawford's achievement is also impressive, but comparing it to Usyk vs Fury it's not the same to me. He had a reach advantage and a style advantage. Usyk had to find his way into range, while Crawford did not at all. Canelo's style worked quite well for Crawford, and canelo had visibly lost speed.

Also crawford coming up in weight is the narrative of the achievement, but somehow he was able to take canelo's punches quite well, which is weird considering the three weight jump. So either this has me question his earlier wins as partly (!) due to weight bullying and thus not worthy of p4p consideration or question how good canelo still punches when he is not able to significantly hurt someone from 3 weight classes below.

You can't have your cake and eat it, too...

 

Btw compared to crawford vs canelo I think I find it more impressive that RJJ won against ruiz. But then again, ruiz should have fought a different fight...

 

Fury being a tough matchup for most hws is pure conjecture though. How would one conclude that when so much of his legacy is the Wilder trilogy and Wilder himself is so unproven.

 

He took Canlo's punches well because he's Canelo's size. He posted a walking around weight at 187 lbs, and says himself he always stays in the gym so probably keeps the weight pretty well.

He beat a great but somewhat past his best fighter his own size. At 37 he might have lost something yourself, mind you, but less apparent in his case.

Fury's state will always be a matter of debate seeing how schocking he looked against N'Gannou, but just going by the eye test I don't think he was very much declined against Usyk. In that case he would have folded in the last rounds, after the beating he took in the 9th. Not even survived it actually.

Usyk made Dubois fold twice and made AJ more exhausted than he's ever been. A fizzled out boozer doesn't come back from being beaten piller to post for almost a minute to hang with Usyk's pace for the last three. There is absolutely no way. You are in very good shape if you do that.

 

Fury hasn't beaten a top 10 ranked contender since 2022.

Yes Fury performed well vs Usyk but he still would objectively be considered past his prime if we're using the same logic you apply for Canelo.

You also said Canelo never looked good vs A1 opposition but yet he had 2 very good fights vs Golovkin winning the overall trilogy 2-0-1.

Also the fighters who have beaten Canelo would all be considered ATGs Mayweather, Crawford, with Bivol probably a borderline ATG Light Heavyweight.

So again you're missing alot of context and also not mentioning Fury has looked very poor against much worse opposition than Canelo including an MMA fighter.

Also part of the reason Canelo didn't look vs Crawford is because he has slow feet and couldn't find Crawford. It's a stylistic issue for Canelo just like Mayweather was.

So you can't just pick and choose a narrarive and say Crawfords win over Canelo is just down to Canelo being past his prime. Trying to insinuate it has nothing to do with Crawford being an ATG and a stylistic issue for Canelo.

Likewise the same would apply to Usyk.

Finally Fury's H2H ability is pure speculation he's only beaten 3 Heavyweights ranked in the top 10. And despite his thin resume he's been on the canvas almost 10 times.

So I wonder how many losses Fury would have if he fought even half the amount of top 10 ranked fighters that Canelo has.

 

In the sense we can only speculate, sure, but if we factor in Fury's size, his use of range, stamina, and ability to recover, he's quite an obstacle. It's hard to see him - even against the best of the best - get dismissed no problem. I can however see Canelo being easily dealt with at SMW by the very best.

 

LOL - The drug card.

Never leave home without it.

 

Problem is, I don't rate Golovkin particularly high, plus I scored both fights a draw. Further, Canelo became undisputed at 168 via beating Callum Smith, Billy Joe Saunders and Caleb Plant with Saunders perhaps being the best of a real 'here today, gone tomorrow' bunch. Canelo's best (uncontested) win is Danny Jacobs.

What Crawford did was superb, but it also confirmed that Canelo - who could easily have two more losses on his record - was nowhere near as good as all that bling insinuated.