Unpopular Opinion: Liston beats everyone that came before him

I favor Louis, honestly. Guys like Walcott or Charles on their best night may be able to spring an upset.

 

This.

Also Dempsey, Marciano & several others.

 

Nope, he would lose against Joe Louis, probably against Marciano and Walcott, while Tunney and Dempsey are 50/50.

 

Never, he would lose against Louis, Holmes, prime Foreman, Holyfield, Lennox Lewis and many other fighters like prime Marciano and Tyson, Bowe, Dempsey etc are big 50/50.

Liston never proved himself against good big guys, best wins were small and scared lhw Patterson who had questionable chin, and against hard hitting slugger with no defense, one handed power and also a weak chin called Cleveland Williams.

 

OK Louis versus Liston is debatable.

Marciano never faced a live body true heavy and had no answers for that 84" hammer jab. He would be annihilated.

Walcott lost to every third dude who faced him, but Sonny would be in this crew, too? Walcott was a flat-out journeyman.

Tunney never beat a decent heavyweight close to his prime, let along a great one, let alone a mediocre black one. He gets obliterated.

Dempsey's wide open attack would treat him about as well as Patterson.

 

Joe Louis has the best chance but I think Liston's jab, superior strength, technical skill, and durable chin would ultimately be too much for Louis to handle. Walcott and Charles might pose problems on a good night but Sonny's size and strength would eventually wear them down.

That's really about it regarding pre-Liston fighters who have any kind of chance against him.

 

Louis was a more accurate and effective puncher, therefore his punches did a lot of damage. This probably gives the impression that he might have hit harder. I feel the same about Tyson.
But if we had a machine to measure their punching power, I'm willing to bet my house Liston hit harder. Problem is, like I said, he cannot utilize that power as good as Louis could use his.
Of course, like you said, this cannot be proven. But I'd be willing to bet.
Have a Merry Christmas !

 

Hi Buddy.
I get what you mean, nicely laid out, thanks, and a Merry Christmas to White Bomber.
stay safe buddy, chat soon.
Mike.

 

Same could be said for Ali or Holmes if they faced Liston, but they would still beat him, and reach in boxing is not everything plus Walcott and Louis had faster and more accurate jab, but Marciano was able to dodge most of those punches and they were faster than Liston.

What does that to have with Walcott if Walcott style would cause problem to Liston?
And Walcott was much much better than Machen or LHW contender Leotis Martin.

Same can be said for Liston, he never beat good fighter and once he faced fighter that could move and punch, he had problem, Tunney was again better than Machen and Martin.

Dempsey was not scared, could box backwards, was harder puncher and had better chin than Patterson.

 

According to a website called boxrec, Ali did face Liston, twice even, tho once his name was Clay. But as I understand, Holmes and Ali had twitch and Marciano did not. Holmes and Ali also had balance, speed and length. But neither had the power jab of Liston. And Marciano was so bad at dodging that a decrepit old mummy named Joe Louis busted him up badly.

A) Did Machen beat Liston? B) Did Machen lose every third time he entered the ring? Walcott was a pure journeyman with a few fancy footsteps that continues to fool the fools of boxing observations. And Leotis Martin was Sonny's next final fight at the likely age of 41. That's your argument?

Williams, Patterson x2, Valdes, Machen, Folley were all above "good" fighers.

He was scared of Langford and Wills, he couldn't even box backwards against a complete novice lIke Firpo and got knocked cold by a 5-10, 70" reach, 180 pounder.

NEXT!

 

Ali was knocked down by Banks and Cooper who were also 180 pounds, does that mean that he would never beat Liston?
It does not, he struggled with some fighters due to style issue but he still beat Liston, same goes for Tunney.

Williams was one handed weak chin slugger with no defense, Patterson was scared LHW with weak chin, Valdes was past prime and Machen was nothing more than okayish contender who was knocked out in first round by Ingemar.

Machen lost against Ingemar who had no chin and no skills in first round too, but never beat anyone good except green Quarry.
Sonny was not 41 but 37, unlike Joe Louis who lost fight against the guy like Marciano Sonny lost fight at same age against LHW contender.

 

Then I'll say two sides of unpopularity. Even though I'm not a huge Liston proponent on Classic, if you froze everyone at their best time and place and made them keep fighting on the same all-cylinders-level, even I think it wouldn't be crazy if Liston happened to beat everyone before him. But I also, deeply unlike many of us, never had much trouble seeing Marciano potentially beating him, and I actually think I slightly favour Johnson, Dempsey, Louis and perhaps throw a 50/50 out on Tunney and Marciano. All for different reasons. In short, no problem imagining him wreck everyone and yet I also don't think it's an obvious given that he won't find himself outdone by a few either fellow boxer-punchers, or even a pressure fighter, let alone some fancy feet spoilers or mauling spoilers. I just think he keeps a certain H2H company where he's as likely to unravel against some guys as break everything in their skull. I've basically said nothing and added nothing to your great thread and I will be running in 2028, for any backers interested in supporting my campaign. I am very friendly toward the job-creators with a lot of money.

 

He'd be favored over most. But if he fought the top 50 from before his time you'd reckon he'd face a few unpleasant surprises like he did with Leotis Martin.

 

He was way over the hill when he fought Martin.

 

I don't think he was. Wasn't in his prime or anything but the evidence suggests he was still an elite HW the day he died. Liston was going to win that fight if Martin didn't throw the punch of his life.