Gene Tunney vs. Ray Mercer

Legacy and head-to-head are two very different things. The best version of Ray would blow right through the best version of Tunney... It wouldn't even be entertaining.

 

I think the Mercer who fought Damiani and Morrison would struggle with Tunney, probably get outboxed.

 

Tunney only looks quick on film because what we have is him fighting late stage guys who've slowed way down... Gibbons in his final fights, Dempsey two of his three final fights, Carpentier at the end of his career... add to that the slow twitch plodder Heaney. All I see is a very basic boxer, armpuncher type, with average speed. Dude never fought a decent heavyweight. Considering the relative level of competition, Mercer's efforts against Holy and Lewis are much, much more impressive than anything Tunney did at heavyweight.

 

Did Mercer ever really slaughter anyone at world level ?

Even his signature win vs Morrison he probably lost every round in that fight until he finally caught Morrison.

Mercer had a close fight vs an ancient Ossie Ocasio.

Mercer went 1-1-1 vs Jesse Ferguson & Marion Wilson.

Mercers performances vs Holyfield, Lewis, do raise his stock but they were still losses.

There's not alot of actual quality wins on Mercers resume.

Now don't get me wrong I do think Mercer for example would be a very tough match up for the likes of Marciano. Because Marciano would be coming straight ahead vs an iron chinned Heavyweight who has 40-50 pound weight advantage.

But a very tricky skillful boxer with good movement in Tunney would give Mercer alot of problems despite the weight difference.

 

Tommy Morrison. And was the "world level" the same in 1927 as it was in 1995? 1927 had a bunch of breadline 170 pounders and has beens vying for a title shot while the 90's had big ass super athletes with careful grooming from youth, in all the Golden Gloves, all the international competitions, the Olympics, etc.

Who would you have rather been at the end of that fight? Marciano was losing almost every round to Walcott. Willard was losing almost every round to Johnson. Jeffries lost a lot of rounds to Fitz and Corbett. And it only went FIVE rounds. It's not like he landed a Hail Mary in the 12th. He KO'd him FIVE.

Are we comparing the best Mercer or the worst Mercer to Tunney? And I still think the worst Mercer beats Tunney, to be honest.

And Tunney never faced anything near a Holyfield or Lewis, not as big, not as skilled, not as heavyweight, not as BLACK.

Tunney only looks tricky and quick because he was facing a bunch old, slow twitch white dudes on film. Granted, I love me some Gibbons and Dempsey in their prime, but even Tommy was only 179 for their bout and in his FINAL ring appearance and Dempsey was 190 and completely spent from 4 years of constant fornication with Hollywood starlets (can you blame him?)... But these are not the same things as a PRIME Holy or a PRIME Lewis or even a PRIME Morrison.

Apples and oranges. Mercer KO 4.

 

Mercer vs Gene Tunney?...Gene is considered an all time great! Mercer? Not even in the conversation...by any knowledgeable boxing fan!

 

What is the best Mercer though ? Did he really have a prime ?

Split decision vs an ancient Ocasio.

Got his jaw broken by Cooper.

Lost every round to Damiani before landing a freak punch out of nowhere.

Solid win over Morrison.

Schooled by a 42 year old Holmes.

Had an embarrassing loss to Ferguson.

Comeback and was in shape for the rematch vs Ferguson & Wilson two fighters considered journeymans yet Mercer went life and death with both of them a split decision and a draw.

Has a good fight vs a Holyfield who was struggling at that time with heart condition coming off a bad performance vs Moorer.

Was overweight vs Lewis but had a good performance although I think Lewis stood and traded with Mercer as he was trying to prove himself to the American public at that time.

Gift decision vs an old Witherspoon that most felt he lost.

Am I missing something ?

 

Your missing that Tunney didn't beat, didn't even enter the ring with equivalent heavyweights in a head-to-head sense. That is what you are missing.

And who thought Mercer got a gift over Spoon besides the Timmy nuthuggers? Ray came on late and sealed the deal against one the most difficult opponent of the past decade.

And by the way, he hadn't lost every round against Damiani, not even close, and he closed the show emphatically via KO. That is the result. There's no close in horse shoes, hand grenades or KO's. Same goes with his Morrison win.

 

Mercer fought a diminished Holyfield (Holyfield coming back from a "retirement" after poor performance losing to Moorer and a health scare).
Mercer was a fat plodder himself against Lewis, and 35 years old.
And he lost both fights.

He went on to win (close) against a 39 year old Tim Witherspoon and not much else.

Mercer in his prime lost to 42 year old Holmes.

 

And you're forgetting Mercer was having life and death struggles vs journeyman fighters.

Who thought Mercer got a gift vs Witherspoon ? Uhh most people who watched it ? Witherspoon landed 60 percent of his punches.

And are we also forgetting this was in 1996 ? How old was Witherspoon ? 1 year off of 40 ?

Didn't lose every round to Damiani ? Yes he did near enough two judges had Mercer winning a grand total of 1 round.

 

Journeymen who would be championship material in Tunney's age, were he or Dempsey ever brave enough to fight BLACK fighters, especially BIG, ATHLETIC, BLACK fighters.

Spoon was on an 8 fight win streak, just KO'ing with a one loss Gonzalez and whitewashing a one loss Al Colle. I believe he was only a few years older than Ray.

Anyways, it was a close fight but Spoon faded.

And who won? Did Billy Conn win the heavyweight belt from Louis? Did Ron Lyle win it from Ali? Did Vitali win it from Lennox?

 

So let's get this straight.

Marion Wilson would be a championship level boxer.

Hyping up a gift decision vs a 39 year old Tim Witherspoon who would go on to lose 5 out of his next 6 fights.

And now you're trying to hype up Mercers win over Damiani trying to make some type of weird comparison to Lewis, Louis, Ali, because they struggled in some fights.

Yeah this is not a serious discussion.

 

What is not serious is telling me that Tunney is some sort of fighter who would be a capable heavyweight in the 1990's because he beat a 179 pound Tommy Gibbons in Gibbons' final fight. Or a stale, cumdrained 190 pound Dempsey on a rain soaked canvas over ten rounds, of a 173 pound Carpentier, or a slow twitch powder puff puncher in Heeney...

I would take the Cooper that Mercer beat, fresh off KO'ing Norris and a year from almost KOing Holy, to run that field.

 

You must not of seen an ancient 5'11 74 inch former Cruiserweight Ossie Ocasio having a split decision vs Mercer.

I don't think Tunney would be asking Jesse Ferguson to take a dive for him either.