What's the oldest p4p list that we know of?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Rubber Glove Sandwich, Aug 16, 2023.


  1. Rubber Glove Sandwich

    Rubber Glove Sandwich 'Iranian flag green' reflecting pool Full Member

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    Every time there's a p4p list in the general forum there's always at least one poster complaining about how p4p lists are a meaningless and modern fad. Not saying I disagree or agree, that's not the point of the thread. However these types of comments made me curious, what's the oldest recorded p4p list of fighters who were active at the time of the list? Do we know of any p4p lists made during the really old eras like 1880-1910? Maybe even from the bare knuckle period?

    Thanks in advance.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2023
  2. Melankomas

    Melankomas Corbett beats your favourite fighter

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    Probably some dude from 1720
     
  3. Rubber Glove Sandwich

    Rubber Glove Sandwich 'Iranian flag green' reflecting pool Full Member

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    That's cool and all but I put "that we know of" for a reason. I want to be able to see the actual list.
     
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  4. Rubber Glove Sandwich

    Rubber Glove Sandwich 'Iranian flag green' reflecting pool Full Member

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    Pardon my ignorance of that era but wouldn't a 1720 top 10 p4p list just be

    1. James Figg
    2. everyone else.
     
  5. Melankomas

    Melankomas Corbett beats your favourite fighter

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    Still a list tho ain't it? :sisi1

    I have seen a few P4P lists of fighters from the 1880s and onwards, but not really prior to that. I know there were comparisons between eras though, example would be how Mendoza era fighters saw themselves as more technically advanced than Broughton era fighters. I'm sure they had lists back then, but it would take quite a bit of digging to find it.
     
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  6. Rubber Glove Sandwich

    Rubber Glove Sandwich 'Iranian flag green' reflecting pool Full Member

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    Apologizes for bumping my own thread but I would be curious to see if any of the historians on these forum would have an answer. I'm looking for the oldest known p4p list ranking fighters that were active at the time of the creation of the list.
     
  7. PrimoGT

    PrimoGT Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    It's a modern fad.
    I haven't seen any p4p list prior to 1980s, KO magazine. I don't remember it being a major promotional device until a few years ago.
     
  8. SolomonDeedes

    SolomonDeedes Active Member Full Member

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    This isn't exactly what you asked for, but in 1917 Grantland Rice called Bob Fitzsimmons the greatest pound for pound fighter of all time, ahead of his contemporaries Joe Gans and Terry McGovern.

    https://ibb.co/BYWvZGs
     
  9. Yorbals

    Yorbals Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Achilles
    Hector
    Duran
    Spartacus
    Alexander
    Boudicca
    Robinson
    Leonidas
    Pai Mei
    Pep
     
  10. The Fighting Yoda

    The Fighting Yoda Active Member Full Member

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    Wasn’t the term P4P originally created by sports journalists as a way to compare boxers across different weight classes, essentially emerging from Sugar Ray Robinson’s dominance? In the sense of: “Regardless of the weight class, he would be the best,” if there were no physical limitations…

    In that sense, it wouldn’t be that old at all. According to Boxrec, the first official Ring Magazine P4P rating (annual) only appeared a few decades later.
    1989:

    1. Mike Tyson

    2. Julio Cesar Chavez

    3. Pernell Whitaker

    4. Michael Nunn

    5. Antonio Esparragoza

    6. Meldrick Taylor

    7. Azumah Nelson

    8. Raul Perez

    9. Virgil Hill

    10. Marlon Starling

    Obviously, rankings within individual weight classes are much older, since you need a system to compare fighters or potential contenders with each other.
    Of course, individual comparative statements, even across weight classes, can go back much further as well…
     
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  11. PrimoGT

    PrimoGT Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    The term pre-dates SRR. I've seen it applied to boxers in 1920s, maybe 1910s.
    It just means "pound for pound". Like a pound of gold is worth more than a pound of flour, a pound of Sam Langford is worth more than a pound of Jess Willard. That's all it means.

    It was usually applied to boxers such as Sam Langford, Joe Walcott, Mickey Walker, etc., who competed with and beat men who were much heavier.
     
  12. PrimoGT

    PrimoGT Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    "Pound for pound" rankings lists, however, and especially the idea that the lists are IMPORTANT, is a very recent fad.
     
  13. Rubber Glove Sandwich

    Rubber Glove Sandwich 'Iranian flag green' reflecting pool Full Member

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    If you still have one of those 1880s p4p lists I would love to see it.