If he had dedicated himself, do you think he could have ended up as a top 10 atg p4p? or at least top 20? I think so. While i don't think he would ever beat Jones Jr, he was more than capable of beating everyone else. Even at heavy, he could have picked up some nice wins. Obviously he was never beating Lewis or the Klit brothers but a proper in shape Toney (like of Jirov fight) would have the potential to do well at heavy. He already has some amazing wins over Nunn, McCullum, Jirov etc. so more consistency and a few other big wins - and you would have a legit case for a top 20 p4p spot.
Maybe, but he went to Cruiserweight and Heavyweight specifically because he loved cakes and was weak at weight-making. Would he have done that if he could have had a great career from 160 to 175?
He did have a lot of success from 160-168. He was naturally going to progress beyond that anyway. But you do have a good point though.
Such a James Toney would have far better stamina, more workrate, take less breaks. He'd simply be doing the same things, at a higher pace and throwing far more punches. He probably beats McCallum clearly and has no dodgy decisions. Beats everyone bar Roy Jones below HW. He'd knock out more opponents. I don't see how even a dedicated Toney beats Jones, he'd have to transform into a pressure fighter, which with this alternative history gymrat Toney, he can do because he has unlimited stamina. Still a bad style match up for a natural counter puncher In terms of skills, defence and technical ability Toney is pretty much all middleweight champions for my money. The likes of Hagler, Monzon and Hopkins weren't as skilled, but they had intagibles, stamina and conditioning
Yes, had he been more disciplined and didn't dabble in PED use he'd have had some better wins. Not sure who he would have faced but I think he could have beaten almost anyone from 168 to Cruiser and had a few good scalps at HW. He actually did well at HW but the drug test failures hurt him.
If he had the dedication of Bernard Hopkins he could have achieved legit greatness. Wasted his potential like Eddie Mustafa Muhammad with the refrigerator being his biggest nemesis.
What else was he supposed to do? He was world champion at 160; during that time he said that his goal was to become heavyweight champion of the world. He was world champion at 168. He became world champion at cruiserweight after being written off. Then he won the heavyweight title; he was subsequently stripped of that but the fact remains that a short, fat middleweight that apparently never dedicated himself to boxing defeated a heavyweight champion. James Toney said, when he was champion at 160 pounds, that his goal was to become heavyweight champion. That kind of implies that his rise through the weight classes was deliberate. Or, maybe, he knew in his heart that he was suddenly going to get lazy, lose his dedication to his craft, quit training, blow up in weight....and still beat Holyfield, Ruiz, etc...
Dominate a division at some point? He won a lot of titles, but he never did prove himself a dominant holder of any one of them. He was undefeated at middleweight, but that reign was full of draws, close calls, and the occasional outright sham. He looked like he'd done it at supermiddle, until he fought Roy Jones and suffered one of the most embarrassing defeats by a great fighter in his prime. Almost won a title at lightheavy. Went undefeated at cruiser, sort of, but didn't win a legit world title until his last fight there, at which point he immediately bailed on the division. He also technically weighed in as a cruiser when he fought Thadzi. At heavy the only major win he got to keep was against a washed Holyfield. Never did win a legit world title at the weight. His career is no greater than the sum of its parts. It may even be less, because of the nature of some of his losses.
Roy Jones and Toney were the first MW world champs to win a HW world title since the first world war. Yes others would have done it if fighting John Ruiz was an option. Or if they had access to the latest in modern pharmaceuticals. But still no one can deny Toney was a P4P great. You might not pick him to beat any other P4P greats unless they were HW but its hard to deny him entry to the club. Holyfield was knocked out twice in his long career by Bowe and this Middleweight. Old Foreman, Lennox Lewis, Valuev(2x the MW limit) Moorer, Tyson and Qawi didn't knock out Holyfield. But this MW did. Man was never knocked out. Toney patronage of the minor ABCs is really something. IBO,WBU, IBA, WBF, IBU, IBC. Ironically Toney never fought for the WBO world title. If he had he would have fought for world titles for 10 different sanctioning bodies. Thats some sort of record. At the regional level he fought for the USBA, NABF, NABO and WBC Continental Americas belt. His resumes got to be the longest ever because thats a lot of letters.
He would have to beat the likes of Calzaghe, Hop, Roy and reign over a division convincingly, almost Hagler/Monzon-like. Erratic performances below 168, almost disappearing from serious contention up to Jirov, and the loss to Roy would need significant legacy wins and dominance to give him a chance of breaking top 20 barrier.
I agree he would have been a Top 10 pound for pound. The guy had a world of ability. Roach claimed that ‘Lights Out’ was the most naturally talented fighter that he ever worked with. Just imagine he would have had the discipline of Floyd Mayweather.
