The chin and defensive skills of Joe Louis

No need to make stuff up (about Frazier)
It was your point though.
You claimed that you never deviated from discussing Frazier now you're admitting that you did. Which is it?
I've already used 'special needs'. Get your own insult.
The proof is in the Terry Daniels and Ron Stander fights in which Frazier moves considerably slower and is 10 lbs overweight. Here's a little exercise for you watch FOTC and then watch those two fights and see if you notice anything different. Do your homework.
The onus is in you to prove Frazier wasn't in his prime at 29 because quite a few people agree that 29 falls within the range of a boxer's prime.
Look how you seamlessly went from talking about Frazier to talking generally. This is what I've been pointing out but you seem oblivious to it. Also, why would the onus be any more or less on me than it would be on you?
I've never mentioned Frazier's arm.
Frazier spent two weeks in the hospital after the Ali fight dealing with pretty severe kidney and blood pressure issues. That was what caused his decline.
When you speak about a fighters prime you're not merely comparing them with other fighters you are comparing them with earlier, better or worse stages of their career so Frazier doing well in other fights is irrelevant to the argument. He wasn't as fast, he was carrying extra weight and he was getting hit a lot more. There are fighters who still have success even though they're less than the used to be.
He took a lot of punches from two very subpar opponents.
Ellis, Quarry and Ali were all past their bests too.

spectacularly without showing any issues with his stamina, reflexes
You admitted in a previous comment that there was some deterioration. Why are you contradicting yourself again? How many times can you contradict yourself in one thread?

Here's FOTC and the Foster fight.

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Now here's the Stander and Daniels fights.

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Yank Durham talks about Frazier's issues at the post fight interview.

See if you can tell the difference.

 

I agree, smaller, pressure fighters have to train harder and want it more than their opponent. When the desire and intensity is not there, they are not the same fighter. A fighter who is big for his era, can gain a few pounds, he doesn't have to be as busy, and can get away with not training as hard or having the same intensity against most opponents. Frazier, from Ellis 1 to Ali 1 was at his best, a well conditioned, intense fighter. After Ali 1 he was not the same. The desire was not the same, a smaller, pressure fighter like Frazier can't gain weight and slack off in his training and still be the same.

 

Watch the videos that I was kind enough to embed in the previous comment.
You made a counterclaim so the onus is also on you to disprove my point you buffoon.
He was slower than he was in his previous fights that is clear to anyone with a functional pair of eyes.
You can't hide the fact that you admitted that he was declining clear as day.
Again I ask: how can he be in decline and still be in his prime?

 

What point didn't I engage with?
You're Pathetic.
Again: how can he be deteriorating and still be in his prime?

 

Glass City Cobra vs. HomicideHank is the new Mcvey vs. Mendoza and I’m all for it

 

What SMW almost stopped Louis? I'm detecting some shocking hyperbole here unless i completely missed a huge event in Joe's career.

 

Good thread enjoyed reading through.

Above average in both I say. Probably scoring higher in defense I think most other long reigning champions were hit cleanly more often than Louis was. And he was relatively offensive even though kinda economical so it's not like he was staying on the backfoot.

 

I think Joe is one of those fighters who is very durable but more so due to his powers of recovery rather than his chin. Take a look at the times he gets knocked down, how many of those times is he actually notably impacted by the effects of the knockdown? He usually just went back to business afterwards. Similarly to Fury (NOT saying Fury is in the same discussion as Joe Louis btw, just pointing out a modern fighter who shares a similar trait)

 

The bottom line is that Foreman was all wrong for Frazier. Joe was walking into the mouth of a cannon. No Frazier does well vs Foreman. It’s ALWAYS a one sided bout in Foreman’s favor. Sluggers generally have an advantage over swarmers. I never rooted against Frazier in any of his bouts but the truth is the truth.