Tyson Fury vs Battling Siki

Specific to your suggestion to have a minimum height limit for the heaviest weight division, I still don't understand the problem you're trying to address.

Current rules - if a sub 6ft 5ins fighter is too small to compete at HW, they can compete at one of the lower weight divisions = No problem.

Your suggestion - the best fighter regardless of weight, Usyk, would not be permitted to compete in the open weight division = major problem, to the significant detriment of boxing.

 

How does a sub 6ft 5ins non-SHW fighter prove they are good enough to beat 6ft 5ins+ SHWs if they aren't permitted to fight them?

 

Ok, so sub 6ft 5ins fighters could fight in the SHW division if they win the HW title?

What about the current #2 ring magazine HW contender Kabayel and the fighter I believe may be the next dominant HW champion after Usyk, Moses Itauma, for example? Both unbeaten contenders in the heaviest, open weight division, both weigh in the 240's and are sub 6ft 5ins. What division do they fight in?

 

Thank you for your kind words.

If you'd rather not continue our discussion, please say so, and that will be fine with me.

New ideas are fine, it's part of how we evolve. It's fine, and indeed necessary, to properly scrutinise them, too, though. I'm just interested in your rationale and in how thoroughly you've thought your suggestion through.

Assuming you're happy to continue our discussion - are you saying that neither SHW nor HW would have an upper weight limit, but rather just be separated by above and below 6ft 5ins height?

If no, and your suggestion is that HW has an upper weight limit, what do you suggest it is?

 

This is a rather odd match up.

Normally a fantasy fight is based on the premise that there will be some dichotomy of opinion, even if there might be a consensus regarding who comes out on top.

 

Thanks.

Back to a previous question, then - What about fighters under 6ft 5ins, who aren't capable of safely making 225lbs? What weight division do they compete in? Or are they precluded from competing in professional boxing?

 

If you look past the size thing Siki is someone whose record is bad against his best non French and especially non European opponents. Sikis best opponents were mostly LHWs maybe hes the kinda guy who could have done better against big opponents but he didn't try that in an era a lot of guys his size did try that.

Sikis 3rd best win is a 6'4 HW in Journee. Journee has a career record of 19-36 but this is only because he lost 23 of his last 27 fights against a very high SOS. When Siki fought him Journee was not bad. Journees one of those guys who was fairly famous at a certain moment of time that history has forgotten.

Yet all his big losses went the distance except Berlenbach where he made it the 10th round. After that fight the NYT said the following of Siki " The former champion had withstood the terrific blows of his rival as long as he could expect to and longer than any ordinary man would have survived." So he was a tough guy.

 

What this actually does is create an even bigger disparity and a more difficult environment for comparing present talent with the old. It needlessly adds another heavily-diluted division, which will be filled with almost exclusively subpar fighters, by your own estimation.

And another thing, for all the flak the current scene gets for weight bullying, it is in reality fought under comparatively controlled conditions. The distant past was more so a wild west when it comes to match-ups involving great differences in weight, as evidenced here on video.

 

You have been nothing but polite and complimentary towards me, so I hope you understand that the below is in no way a personal attack, just my honest opinion offered in the spirit of debate forums like these exist for.

With specific regard to your suggestion for the current HW division to be split into a SHW division with a minimum height of 6ft 5ins, and a sub 6ft 5ins 225lbs HW division, I think this is a terrible suggestion and don't believe the problem you think exists, actually exists. I.e the problem you think exists is that traditional sized HWs are forced to fight less talented "giant" SHWs and lose on account of size. This simply isn't the case, demonstrably so. Take the below 3 x moderns fighters as examples to prove this assertion:

1. Beterbiev - At 5ft 11.5ins and likely around 185-190lbs on fight night, he'd be a small HW half a century ago, but a HW nevertheless. He's not forced to fight "giant" SHWs, nor is he precluded from winning world titles. He's been a world champion at LHW.

2. Opetaia - At 6ft 2ins and likely around 205-210lbs on fight night, he'd be an average to slightly bigger than average HW c.50-years ago. Again, he's not forced to fight "giant" SHWs. He's the world champion at CW.

3. Usyk - At 6ft 3ins and with documented fight night weights at CW ranging from 207-211lbs, he'd have been a slightly larger than average HW 50 years ago. He became undisputed CW champion and then bulked up a little to 215-225lbs and became undisputed HW champion, twice, beating the best two "giant" SHWs of his era, twice each.

Splitting the current HW division as you suggest addresses no problem, it's makes no improvements.

It would, however, dilute the talent pool, lead to lower quality fights, make it more difficult to determine who "the man" is and in the instances of the many sub 6ft 5ins boxers not capable of making 225lbs, it would preclude them from competing in professional boxing.