Who Wins in my opinion buster douglas wins 70% of the time. Just way to skilled way to fast and to big he would do way better than jimmy young in my opinion. Buster douglas defeated Tyson who literally has non stop pressure foreman wouldn't be able to land as much as tyson did. And this is literally 1977 foreman where he was slower
Foreman was vulnerable to good boxers. The Buster that fought Tyson was a much better version then the one that fought Holyfield. That version of him would have been taller and heavier in addition to being far more skilled. I think Douglas gets the decision.
The problem is Buster isn't as tough as Jimmy. Jimmy Young had an ATG chin. Douglas did not. And Foreman almost got Jimmy Young anyway. I get the concept of Buster outpointing George. Douglas certainly capable of doing that he'd have a shot at Ali, Norton and Young as well. Hes probably not going the distance. One of the reasons Douglas was such a challenging matchup for Holmes is Holmes really isn't a power guy and Holmes would be confused by an opponent having a better jab then him. Foreman isn't Holmes.
Foreman by stoppage. Douglas is overrated based on one flukey (if you listen to Tyson fans) result. He doesn’t enjoy the physical advantages he held over Tyson here and I’m assuming the fight isn't being held in a tropical sauna which is a big reason (amongst a few others) why the Young upset occurred. As stated Douglas didn’t have a great chin and you’d need that and wily survival instincts to beat the 77 Foreman even if he was still in a rebuilding phase.
Flying into the Puerto Rican climate just the day before (against advice) the fight was hardly the smartest thing Foreman ever did lol
Hopkins did indeed which goes to show just how serious ignoring this intangible is. It's a game changer. Now this is Foreman and Hopkin's own error, but at least it is real. So real in fact that Foreman collapsed of heat exhaustion and was so ill he genuinely believed he had a divine experience, divine enough to retire, pursue religion and not fight for a decade. Foreman was in hospital under observation fort days i believe. He was in dangerous territory later in that fight. We saw something similar with SRR vs Maxim. It's not good. I mean Foreman one could hardly expect Foreman to chase a rematch after hallucinating and going to Jesus, surely. It's not as if he was allergic to them, he chased an Ali rematch for years and it was partly why he was taking on such high ranked contenders. I do think it was an anomaly. So do loads of others, some that get paid to write about boxing. It is what it is. The fights closer than many think too, one guy in here that used to live and breath to score fights had Young by a single point. It's hardly as if Young schooled him and beat him wide. The good old can't handle boxers gets thrown at Foreman all the time. Ali fought him off the ropes from as early as round 2. He wasn't moving and boxing. Not at all. In round 1 he was aggressive and threw some of the nastiest ill intent right hands he threw in his life. They were just bouncing off Foreman. Ali took some ridiculous punishment in that fight, particularly to the body. A helluva lot of atg's would not have been able to endure what Ali shipped IMO....but that's why he was the GOAT. I would back less than 5 heavyweights in history against George that night, possibly substantially less. I don't rate old Foreman with the young. He got some stuff done in spite of age limitations. What he did at that age after a decade off is spell binding truth be told. He's not young George tho despite some good (and neccesary) adjustments to his game. He'd be awkward but i don't see him beating Foreman pre defeat. I think Foreman in Zaire would have KO'd him. Foreman had him out on his feet and ready to go in the 7th but couldn't muster enough. Jimmy himself said "George did not know it, but while I may have been standing, I was out cold. He could have pushed me over with his little finger. How I survived that round I will never know." “He really hurt me,” Young said later. “I didn't think I was going to make it. But desperation and the will to live got me through. I think if that left hook had hit me on the chin instead of on the forehead, I would've been gone.”Young was a superb fighter for a time tho. He was a real cutie who could fight and tie up in the pocket and was excellent against punchers. I think this version of him would have beaten Cooney. What you are saying in essence is that you wish more people would share your opinion. Foreman had a point deducted and also tripped over his own feet after a cuffing type punch that did nothing except drag him down. That stretched the cards a bit. He only lost by one point per one of the judges.
Young arrived a week earlier than Foreman and trained in the heat. Foreman didn't. If you think that acclimatizing means zilch and want to claim Foreman being from Texas gave him the advantage despite Young getting their earlier and training in the heat for a week go for it. Based on everything that has been discussed. You don't accept a lot of it, i do. Only one of them faded, suffered heat exhaustion and saw god among a lot of other things. Brutally pole axing top 2 heavyweights, one undefeated, always has some sort of relevance. He showed he can KO elite level fighters. Ali also decided to fight off the ropes rather than box Foreman. If Foreman was a plodding oaf with no footwork skills to put pressure on Ali he would have boxed a lot more. Despite his prep Foreman was a bee's dong off KO'ing Young. That's sure relevant to how Foreman goes against Young, no? I'm one of many that doesn't rate Foreman as the same force post loss. He took the loss terribly mentally and worked on pacing himself, being less aggressive etc. He lost some of the things that made him Foreman mark 1. I know it? I know nothing. I've never scored the bout. I said earlier SS had Young by just one point, and he was an extremely respected scorer in here whose main love was........scoring. Dubchin spoke out heavily against the scoring, from memory he may have even said Foreman was ripped off due to certain factors including the crowd. 116-111 is well off some of cards and opinions i have seen. Their first meeting saw Foreman at the 15 fight mark. Peralta was top 10 rated, Foreman's first fight against a contender. Foreman won by the scores of 9-1, 5-4 and 7-3. In the very post i am quoting you stated "Foreman lost on two of scorecards 118-111, 116-112, which is a pretty comprehensive victory." You also stated the judge that had it by one point was "obviously off the mark". Now you are claiming Peralta gave Foreman a "very competitive bout" despite 9-1, 5-4 and 7-3. You threw out the close card against Young, so if we follow your lead Foreman won 9-1 and 7-3. That's at least as comprehensive as 118-111 and 116-112. Calling one "very competitive" and the other "pretty comprehensive" is a double standard. Peralta was all of 3 and 4 pounds under 200. He was as tough as they come, and he could fight. Foreman beat him comfortably in the second encounter, when George he was on the rise. You've labeled Peralta "long in the tooth" yet he had just drew with Oscar Bonavena the fight before Foreman. Did you not know this? Bonavena was Ring rated #5 when this bout took place. It's probably Peralta's best ever result at heavyweight. A green Foreman comfortably outpointed him next fight. You are heavily minimizing Foreman's win over Peralta. It's actually a very impressive performance at that green stage over a guy that had not been beaten in almost 30 fights. Even 2 years post Foreman Peralta was still going 20 rounds across two bouts with Ron Lyle, drawing the second, Peralta's last ever fight. Tho Lyle should have got the decision (it was the mandatory Argentina draw lol) it was still impressive for Peralta. The man could fight and was as tough as nails. A lot of good boxers would have outboxed comeback Foreman. It was incredible that he had the success he did. Moorer sure wasn't trying to play the role of puncher vs Foreman, that's for sure. Really? I'll pass on most of that lot. I've already addressed your misconceptions of Peralta. Foreman's lustre has never come from a lengthy first resume. It's come from his two top end wins. He beat an unbeaten ATG champion in a way that has probably never been seen at heavyweight, with all considered. Not long after he decimated an extremely high level fighter in Norton in an incredible way as well. This was the best Norton there ever was. He'd just come off his back to back fights with Ali and years later he still took Ali to the wire in losing a controversial decision and then took Holmes all the way to the final bell in a tight affair. It's his top end that shines. Those two wins are better than any two Holmes ever had. Pipping a much older Norton is among Holmes best. Holmes legacy is built on consistency and length. Can Marciano match these two wins? Frazier can match one. Does Lewis have two better wins? Does Wlad (lol)? Vitali? Louis? Liston? The two top end wins and coming back after a decade off to win the lineal title off Moorer (who had beaten Holyfield) is where George's rep is built, not continuous longevity. At any rate who was going to have a long reign with the GOAT casting his shadow over the division. If Ali wasn't around who knows what would have transpired.
Not that it matters, but I had it 8-4 as well. 116 - 110 Young with 2 points decucted from George for a KD and rough-housing.
Yeah, flying from a subtropical climate to a subtropical climate over a fairly short distance was certainly a fool’s game.
Hopkins fought Mercado at altitude in South America. Foreman took a quick trip over the Gulf of (then) Mexico and fought in the same climate and altitude. Foremaniacs will defend the wildest excuses.
He had some good wins but nothing in the realm of Tyson. His level was Tucker, Tubbs, Smith (though he had more ability than these guys imo) really. Talented but with limits. The Tyson result was an outlier in his career.
