Who Does The Best Against Prime Ali? (Poll Included)

No votes for Vitali interestingly. Everyone else has at least one.

 

I thought you were putting me on ignore?

I don't want to play any game. Pick whoever you want out of Wlad vs Ali, it makes no difference to me. I was merely pointing out the stupidity of your post.

Markus asked you "you're saying there's no way for Ali to land his jab on SOMEONE who is taller with a longer reach".

You answered "not consistently and not more than he would be getting hit".

And now the forum will get to read how you weren't literally answering the question you responded to, but were answering a different question....

 

Regardless of whether that it is true or not, I'm unsure what relevance it has to my post, which was in response to a poster claiming Ali couldn't out jab anyone taller and with a longer reach than him.

 

Funny how Markus understood I was talking specifically about Wlad but you didn't. More bad faith from you but I guess that's all we can expect from someone incapable of actually defending their position just taking potshots and then running away.

 

You’re simplifying Wlad’s style way too much. It’s not just “stepping back” he resets range with the jab and immediately clinches if you get close. That’s why guys like David Haye struggled to even get into position consistently.

You’re also assuming Ali can land right hands and win exchanges without explaining how those exchanges are happening in the first place. Wlad’s entire style is built around limiting exchanges and controlling when they occur.

And saying Ali only has to worry about a few punches misses the point the jab alone dictates the fight at that range. If Ali stays outside, he’s dealing with a longer jab. If he tries to close distance, he’s getting tied up and reset.

So how is Ali actually maintaining a higher work rate without constantly being reset or clinched?

 

You're correct @MarkusFlorez99 understood you. He asked if you were saying Ali couldn't out jab "someone" taller than him with a reach advantage (finishing his question "LOL") , you responded "not consistently" and the first words of Markus's subsequent response was "but he's done it before". I.e. did out jab someone taller than him with a reach advantage.

I think I owe you an apology. I've previously suggested you were a troll, because I suspected you were, but now I think I was wrong. You genuinely didn’t realise that Markus was mocking you until I just pointed it out, did you?

Your reading comprehension is abysmal.

Talking of which, please enlighten me, what position is it that I've adopted that I'm running away from?

 

The discussion has been about Wladimir Klitschko vs Muhammad Ali from the start, not a generic “taller fighter with reach.” You’d know that if you followed the actual context instead of isolating one line.

Whether Markus was being sarcastic or not doesn’t change the point being made about that specific matchup, which he actually responded to.

You haven’t taken a position on the fight you’ve just focused on wording instead of engaging with the argument. If you have a view on Ali vs Wlad, say it. Otherwise this is not a discussion just irrelevant nitpicking and an attempt to rile me up.

 

So, you're saying that by "someone taller", you read "Wlad"?

Why did you say I was running away from my position if you acknowledge I haven't adopted one?

 

Yes he resets the range by stepping out of range, I am not simplifying it. He will clinch a lot more against fighting trying to step to him or lunge in. Ali would not do this often, if anything he will be clinching more, he would fight primarily on the backfoot and his feints and bouncing would make Klitschko more gunshy. Wlad would take his combinations away for the most part but he would not take his jab and single darting powershots away, Wlad struggled with and got dropped by Williamson with a right, who was using the ring more than Haye and trying to actively box from a distance rather than look for counter shots, Haye wasn't moving as much as Ali who did it for the purpose of being a moving target and disrupting rhythm, he was moving to find openings for counters thats why he stayed on the ropes from time to time. Don't forget, Ali had better stamina then Klit and certainly a higher workrate and he's a bit more awkward than Haye, his chances increase massively if the fight is scheduled for 15 rounds. Ali also went to the body even more than Wlad which isn't a good statistic, he actually did the most body punching against 6'6 Terrell which is rare from him

I need to explain to you how Ali can catch Wladimir when lesser fighters have caught Wladimir ? Joke ? I think a better worded question is "how does Ali consistently hit Wlad and not get hit enough to win on points"

My point is Usyk and Tyson are slightly harder fights for Ali to overcome they bring more to the table im sorry

 

You understand the discussion has been about Wladimir Klitschko vs Muhammad Ali the entire time, right? So when I say “someone,” it’s clearly within that context, not some random taller fighter. Seems the only one lacking in reading comprehension here is you.

And yes jumping into a discussion about a specific matchup while refusing to take a position is a way of avoiding the actual argument. You’re focusing on wording instead of engaging with the topic.

 

I agree that Usyk and Tyson bring more variety, but that’s exactly why I don’t think Wlad is an easier matchup.

Wlad has a very specific style built around controlling range, limiting exchanges, and killing work rate with the jab and clinch. That’s a style Ali never really had to deal with, and I don’t think he consistently showed the tools needed to overcome it.

If Ali is fighting primarily on the back foot, he’s giving Wlad control of distance, which plays directly into that system. And if combinations are mostly taken away, I don’t see how single shots and jabs alone are enough to consistently outwork him over rounds while dealing with Wlad's own excellent jab.

Stylistically Haye shows what happens when a mobile, outside fighter tries to operate against Wlad. He was able to control range, limit output, and make it very difficult to build any sustained offense. Ali is better, but the underlying problem, dealing with that jab, the distance control, and the resets, is still there.

So it’s not that Ali can’t land, it’s whether he can maintain consistent offense without Wlad dictating the pace and that’s where I think this becomes a really difficult matchup for him.

 

He has, you just don't acknowledge them

No he's not. He's making Wlad come to him by never standing still and wont stop circling, Williamson gave him problems doing this, you just ignore this example for some reason. Alis constant feints will make Wlad more gunshy than usual Klitschko is very robotic and can be thrown off with an awkward opponents and he's not taking Alis jab away and he has gotten hit with right hands from slower shorter less accurate guys like Peter and Williamson. Ali has gotten tagged by lesser guys than Wlad but he has a better chin than Wlad, always struggled more with shorter guys and was never not dominating in his prime. Wlad is outmatched in the stamina department he's not going to control the fight enough to slow down Alis typical pace when he's missing almost all of his straight up and down by the book punches besides his jab which he will be about as successful as Ali. If this is a 15 rounder Klitschko might gas out since he won't be dictating the pace

Haye was trying to counter punch and went back to the ropes plenty of times he wasn't looking to pot shot against Klitschko he wasn't using movement to make Wlad work or trying to gauge with feints not to mention he isn't half the jabber Ali is, has a lower workrate, has slower feet, and has a much less consistent 1-2. Haye is not that good. Who is Hayes best win bro

 

You didn't say "someone". Markus did. Keep up. You're now claiming you answered if he had said "Wlad", even though Markus has confirmed he did mean "someone" (fancy that, someone meaning what they posted). It was obvious to me what he meant, you mistook it (or more likely are now claiming to, having been educated that Ali did indeed beat a taller opponent with a longer reach).

I "jumped in" to ridicule your assertion that Ali couldn't outjab someone taller with a longer reach. I have a high threshold to quote a post for the sole purpose of calling it out as brainless, but its a threshold you’ve successfully breached multiple times.

 

You’re assuming Wladimir Klitschko is going to be forced into chasing, but that’s not really how he fought. He controlled distance from the center with the jab rather than overcommitting forward.

Circling and constant movement don’t stop that. He can still reset range and keep the fight where he wants it, which is at long distance.

The Williamson example isn’t that relevant because that’s before Wlad fully established the style he became known for. His approach changed a lot after that and it doesn’t really reflect how he fought in his prime.

A better example is the David Haye fight, where you’re dealing with a more complete version of Wlad. Haye was a fast, mobile, outside fighter, and Wlad was still able to control range, limit his output, and shut the fight down. The point isn’t how great Haye was it’s how that kind of style looks against Wlad.

You’re also assuming Wlad becomes too hesitant to control the fight, but even when he was cautious, he still dictated range with the jab. That’s the key issue here.

And the stamina point only really matters if Ali is able to force a high pace, which is exactly what’s in question. If Wlad is constantly resetting range and limiting exchanges, the pace stays low anyway.

So it’s not about whether Muhammad Ali can land or make him miss at times it’s whether he can consistently operate at his pace without Wlad re-establishing control of the distance, and that’s the part I don’t think is being fully addressed.