Is Foreman’s “masterful ring cutting ability” a myth?

We have to disagree there, Ali still had enough left to beat any of them.
He beat Wepner, Bugner, Shavers, Frazier and Lyle after the Foreman fight, so his legs were fine for a few more years

 

So? The quality was better then. They’re all better than Razor Ruddock or Tony Thompson, etc etc
If you think all of the other greats beat the Ali that beat Foreman, then fair enough. Personally I think he would still beat all of them at that point

 

Jersey Joe Walcott won the title at 37. Would you have Walcott in your Top 5 before Foreman broke his record? Of course not.

Beat more top guys. He lost to Ali, but then had 15 months off, came back, had a good run, lost to Young and disappeared. If he stayed longer, maybe his career would look better.

I'm not into hypotethicals. I'm looking at what boxers actually did. And I think Wlad, Mike and Lewis could beat '74 Ali. But it doesn't matter, as we could never verify it.

 

30 year old Tyson couldn’t even go the distance with an older Holyfield.
Wlad was ko’d by numerous men, it doesn’t matter how many title defences he had , he’s not near Foreman.
His career looks fine , he has the one blemish on his record, same as Mike, though he could go the distance with Holyfield and beat the man that beat him without resorting to biting, and lost a decision to a man who was better than the several who knocked out Wlad..

 

None of them were on the same level as the guys you mentioned when Ali fought them

 

Well Ali was getting older, but I favour the 32 year old Ali over any of them. He still had legs enough, an ATG chin, ridiculous will to win and durability better than anyone.

 

The same one who lost to Young and Norton? Well we all have your hot takes I guess.

 

So? Is Jersey Joe Walcott better than Tyson then? I don't get the point.

Yeah, he's greater.

Well, Wlad beat better guys than the guys that beat Foreman, so again, don't see the point you're making.

 

He still beat Norton after this and had enough to beat Frazier by stoppage, and beat the others mentioned.
Chinny Lewis and mentally weak Mike are not beating 32 year old Ali

 

Wlad got chinned by several men and knocked cold , he’s not greater than Foreman. Imagine what Foreman does to him if these men can beat him, Foreman ends him.
He forgot how to fight by the age of 40 too, Old Foreman vs old Wlad would be even worse

 

Yeah, he got chinned and still had enough of a turnaround to be greater than Foreman based on his resume. He was never knocked out cold tho, he always ended a fight on his feet.

In my opinion, Wlad beats Foreman who never fought against a bigger guy, who's a better boxer and can punch as hard if not harder. But, as I said, it doesn't matter, we can never verify that.

Wlad's performance against AJ tops anything Foreman did while 41 or older except for the Moorer fight.

 

Except for the Moorer fight, exactly.
Foreman did better as an old man than Wlad, far better.
And he was destroying Nortons and Fraziers as a young man while Wlad was beating his bum of the month club, no noteworthy names besides ancient Rahmans and Thompsons.
This after he was knocked out three times by men far worse than anyone Foreman ever lost to.
I could see Mike or Marciano over Foreman maybe, but Wlad is laughable.

 

Wlad was a great fighter though, let's not get it twisted

 

The fact that the fighter is better at the older age doesn't make him the better fighter overall. Just because Walcott was better than Tyson at the age of 37, doesn't mean he was a better boxer overall. And Wlad would be a favorite over every fighter Foreman beat in his comeback by the age of 41.

He wasn't destroying "Nortons and Frazierz" as it seems like he was destroying a challenger after the challenger. He destroyed Frazier and Norton. That's it. How great they were doesn't matter that much looking at the sheer quantity of quality challengers Wlad faced. The only thing you can argue is that Foreman has better top wins, which is an obvious fact. And Wlad would be a favorite over Kingston Frazier and Norton anyway.

Wlad even with these losses has superior resume than Foreman. Lewis got one shotted by guys worse than guys Foreman lost to and still has a better resume than him as well.

 

Foreman’s performance against Holyfield was better than Wlad-AJ.
George gave heaps to a true ATG fighter in a competitive points loss. Wlad did well but still was stopped by a chinny, non ATG in AJ. A short, tubby non entity ended AJ’s “reign” with a whimper not long after. That about sums Joshua up. Well short of the best.