Ali's legacy had he retired in 1973?

Top 5.

Louis is the clear GOAT, no surprise there, as Ali has no wins over Frazier and Foreman and misses some extra depth. But he still stacks up compared to most other Heavies even if he retires in 73.

Still has a longer reign with more title defences than Marciano, Liston, Frazier and Holyfield, while equaling Tyson in both categories. Didn't last as long as Johnson and Dempsey due to them being inactive champs, but he also has more defences than both. Also equals Lewis in terms of consecutive defences, for what it's worth. It's a real possibility Foreman doesn't last too long either, so he probably doesn't match Ali's record in this universe.

And despite only being outclassed by Holmes and Wlad in terms of reign, he still kinda craps on both in terms depth. He still has like 30 wins over guys who were top 10 ranked at some point. Only reason he wouldn't be a clear cut number 2 behind Louis is the loss to Frazier, which would affect his standing in the eyes of the world given what Foreman did to him. I think the Norton fights would mostly be brushed aside due to the narrative of Ali being washed.

 

This is an absolutely fantastic answer. There’s nothing else left for me to say.

 

Nailed it.

 

This might be the scenario that happened in the Rocky verse since Ali is out of the way by 1974.

 

Ali was a seperate character who existed in the Rocky verse. Ali appears twice in the series if you're paying close attention.

Apollo knocked out Foreman instead though.

 

Without revenging the loss to Frazier and not having a win over Foreman, who's record probably looks significantly better in the 70s without Ali around.

Ali wouldn't be considered the best Heavyweight of the 70s and that would hurt his standing quite significantly.

Ali would probably be rated the 4th best Heavyweight of the 70s below Foreman, Frazier, Holmes.

I would also rate Lewis and Holmes above Ali clearly had Ali retired in 1973.

 

Drops quite a bit imo. No wins over Frazier, Foreman, Lyle, etc. still top 10 but would be below Lewis, Holmes, Holyfield, Wlad, Louis, Frazier, maybe Marciano and possibly Foreman aswell since George wouldn't have his reign ended in Zaire. Goes from the widely acknowledged GOAT at heavy to maybe top 8-10.

 

The Creed movies show that Rumble in the Jungle happened, so either Ali vacated the title or Apollo won it shortly after.

Tyson made a cameo in Rocky Balboa, it's hard to tell if he ever got into boxing or not since his rise was between IV and V and Rocky's son magically aged between movies.

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He still would be Top 5.

He was not supposed to beat the guys he beat after those 3.5 years. I think that is what people don't understand.

After those 3.5 years is what makes him the greatest in the first place. He was not supposed to beat all those guys. He was supposed to just get knocked out and then we go to the next person. He was not meant to clean out the division like he did,it wasn't supposed to happen. What you are describing is what was supposed to happen.

Foreman and Tyson are 2 other cases where people came back after 3 years. But they didn't come back in the same way. Mike or George did not clean out the division when they came back, They got some belts sure,but they didn't just clean everything out

 

I think 60s Ali had a better career than Lewis,Holmes and Wlad as he did beat Liston who came off of the 8 biggest fights off his career.

Lewis biggest names are Tyson that is shot to bits, Holyfield that's way past it and beat Vitali in what some peopel consider contriversal.
Wlad had a good reign ,but his opposition was not that great. Frazier would have beat an ali of 3.5 years after his prime and Marcianois overrated anyways.
Foreman may have been the greatest because in my opinion, the rumble in the jungle decided who was gonna be the greatest of all time. Had George won, he would have been the greatest

 

Liston would still be a better individual win than anything Lewis, Holmes and Wlad have but they'd all have, more title defense, longer reigns, and arguably more depth to their resume than him.

Marciano would have being undefeated over him.

Frazier and him would have about equal title reigns, but I'd put Fraziers win over Ali much higher than Ali's over Liston.

 

Had that happened, very few would have considered him the greatest HW.
He'd be considered top 10 at best.