Daniel Dubois is underrated

I don't know about underrated. I feel he gets his proper level of respect here.

 

Can you condense your replies so I can actually answer your questions? Because your post formatting is an absolute mess mate. I'm not going to continue splitting a post dozens of times to address micro points, especially when you keep changing the criteria of your questions.

 

Fair enough
Will get back to you later

 

Boxing doesn't work on your scorecard though, so let's avoid revisionist history.

Who has Miller beaten that actually makes him a good win for Dubios? He couldn't even beat Andy Ruiz.

And is beating Hrgovic via headbutting and opening a cut really that impressive? It's an OK name for sure, but nothing great.

With those two fights does that really mean you get to have a title shot followed by an undisputed one followed by yet another shot despite quitting the previous one?

3 title shots in a row. THREE.

 

Did you feel Miller lost to Ruiz?
You keep saying who did he beat. Brown, Washington, Duhaupas and didn't lose to Ruiz.
I could make the same argument to several of the HWs you have mentioned.

You keep going back to how Dubois beat Hrgovic.
Whilst I don't disagree with you about heads clashing that hasn't been the argument
The argument is how many others have taken such a tough run and fought as many top HWs in succession
In succession he fought Usyk, Miller, Hrgovic, Joshua, Usyk all within 5 fights and less than 3 years, and picked up a world title.
You haven't been able to say outside of Usyk who has been as successful and who has had a tougher run with a broken down clear answer

 

It comes back to a point I made clear very early on. I don't rate Miller. He hasn't beaten anyone of note (especially recently) and is a known drug cheat.

I also don't rate a victory over Hrgovic because he used excessive fouling to get a stoppage. It's a tainted win.

I give him credit for the AJ fight, but that was a title shot. His actual run for the title was Miller and Hrgovic.

He's about to have his third title fight in a row, and in my view he hasn't earned it. No other fighter has had anywhere near as many opportunities as Dubios has had, especially with such an abysmal record at the top level.

I'd rate Chisora beating Joyce and Wallin higher.

I'd rate Parker beating Wilder, Zhang and Bakole higher. He wanted to fight Dubios as well before Dubios bottled it.

I'd rate Wardley beating Huni and Parker higher.

I'd rate Usyk beating Fury twice higher.

I'd rate Kabayels win over Zhang alone higher.

I'd rate Zhang's win over Wilder higher, and if we go back a little more his absolute demolition jobs on "prime" Joyce.

Hell, I'd even consider Itauma blasting out a shot Whyte and Franklin higher.

Hopefully that answers all of your questions.

 

He’s going to wipe out Wardley. He quits and get frustrated when he can’t hit the opponent like Usyk, but that isn’t going to happen with Wardley. Too strong, powerful and skilled for the late starting Wardley imo

the strength of Joe Joyce put him in the wrong place but he was unbeaten and a lot younger. That Joe Joyce was primeish and a beast though.


Ituama will beat DDD if that happens after Wardley, but then Usyk will outclass Ituama if that happens.

 

I also think Dubois is going to blast out Wardley early.

He has a huge punch and Wardley is slow with no defence.

Dubois is dangerous and can drop any heavyweight if he connects.

 

He isn't a bad fighter. Very good engine for a big HW, decent jab and some good power to go along with it. His problem is his chin is quite weak which doesn't mesh well with his brawler mentality. If he had an elite chin he'd really be a problem.

 

No it doesn't answer the question because you can't say why you rate certain wins higher.
His run to the title was not the question regarding what was asked, which was his run of last 5 fights and the level he was fighting at which was Usyk, Miller, Hrgovic, Joshua, Usyk
Yet you feel all these other 5 names were taking on tougher competition, when Usyk is the top man
No logic there at all.
For example you say who did Miller beat, when assessing Dubois beating him, yet feel Fury did more when you can't say who Ngannou beat for example
You say you think Chisora beating Wallin and Joyce is rated higher in your opinion but that doesn't make sense to me when looking at recent results.
No point in continuing the conversation, as I do not think you will be able to give a straight answer
Have a good weekend

 

I did answer. I don't rate Dubios's wins, and I gave you the reasons why along with a list of fighters who have had better wins (in my opinion).

You keep changing or adding to your criteria which isn't debating in good faith. First it was within three years, now it's 5 fights, first you wanted examples of fighters which I gave you, now you want me to expand even further.

Miller hasn't really beaten anyone, his best result was a draw against a worn Andy Ruiz who hasn't fought since. You've yet to counter that at all.

Hrgovic was tainted because of the excessive fouling.

To address your two points, Fury beating Whyte and Chisora are better wins than Miller and Hrgovic overall, and both of those were successful title defenses.

Wallin and Joyce are better wins in my view because they were rated fairly high by a lot of people at the time. Certainly higher than Miller, perhaps not as high as Hrgovic but again, the fouling has tainted the win.

If you disagree that's fine, but I've answered your questions in very great detail with examples.

You keep conveniently avoiding addressing the fact that this is Dubios's third title shot in a row despite quitting his last attempt. What is the justification for that?

 

It was never about if you rated the wins or not.
Never about if you feel they were wins by fouls
Never about winning or losing

The question was -
"As you seem to disagree with me so much.
Tell me how me how many other top 10 HWs outside of Usyk, who have had as tough a run and in the same under 3 year period
I doubt there are too many

These are Dubois last 5 fights and next fight due.
Usyk undefeated world champion
Miller undefeated
Hrgovic undefeated
Joshua
Usyk undefeated world champion

Wardley next, undefeated world champion"

Go back and look for yourself
That was the question and the first time I asked it

You haven't given anything to counter
You have been disingenuous only focusing on 2 people on the list I gave for Dubois, if I go by your logic
I'm still not sure why you would feel Chisora on a 1-3 In his last 4 fights was better than Miller, but each to their own
Or why Whyte only one fight removed from being KOd was greater? Once again each to their own
You are still in that comment trying to focus on 2 fights rather than the five he had, which is what someone does when they can't debate the facts

As for your question that you say I avoided, but must have obviously missed -
Dubios's third title shot in a row despite quitting his last attempt. What is the justification for that?

Haven't once said anything about there being justification for or against it. Not a thing?
Was never part of the debate
That's you looking for a completely new different angle because you couldn't justify anything you tried to push

 

Wardley is open and gets hit himself, Dubois can seriously whack.

This one goes Dubois early or Wardley late

 

You don't get to dictate my answers. It kind of defeats the purpose.

And I gave you a list of top ten opponents who had both harder opponents and better wins. Now you want me to break each one down because my answer doesn't suit you. For the purpose of your original question, I've answered it.

I also addressed Dubios's entire 5 fight run. Miller hasn't beaten anyone, Hrgovic is tainted because of the foul, his fight against AJ I've agreed deserves credit, and he quit against Usyk twice. Three of those were title shots, one for undisputed.

Chisora beating Wallin and Joyce is more than anything Miller has ever achieved, and is arguably on parity with Hrgovics recent victories.

I don't think you understand what a debate is and how they work. You don't get to set a question and claim I'm ducking because I don't fall in line with your position or answer it in a very specific way.

You also don't get to worm out of answering other questions regarding Dubios, because this thread is discussing if he's overrated. Based on the unjustified title shots he keeps getting, my position is that he is overrated, especially for such a basic fighter that tends to give up a lot.

In any case I'm leaving this here. Have a good weekend.

 

I didn't dictate your answers, or even try to. I asked for some explanation of them.
You tried to dictate the questions to suit your agenda, and that didn't work out for you.

I have said from the start and even the last time I respond to you that I never questioned your point about headbutts with Hrgovic, but even now you seem to want to keep circulating onto something that wasn't even questioned, hence, you trying to dictate the questions
Or how you keep saying things like you don't rate Dubois run of fights, when we weren't talking about how you rate them but the level he consistently fought at ie, the 5 fights, yet you are saying you think Chisora did more lol by beating Joyce and Wallin? When we are talking of the run of the 5 fights and timescale.
Now you will say I think Chisora beating wallin and Joyce is bigger than Dubois beating Miller. It might well be. Once again, that's never been questioned or asked, hence you trying to dictate the questioning.

Get it in your head, that has not been something questioned or said.

You wouldn't be able to break it down because we are talking about a particular time span and you try and pick and choose things to suit you
I will leave you with it, as it is clear that you won't be able to answer
Leaving it there
Have a good weekend