Who Should Floyd Patterson have fought in his HW Title Reign

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McCallumsJab, Apr 14, 2026.


  1. McCallumsJab

    McCallumsJab Member Full Member

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    Now I'm not blaming Patterson who said '“I loved Cus, but he was not going to let me fight the best because he was afraid I was going to lose. I decided a Champion had to face everyone, even if he loses, and I felt better despite the losses." So let's talk about who should have got title shots and how frequestly it should have been defended in an ideal world.

    1. Floyd Patterson, Champion
      1. Tommy (Hurricane) Jackson
      2. Archie Moore
      3. Harold Carter
      4. Willie Pastrano
      5. Eddie Machen
      6. Bob Satterfield
      7. Ingemar Johansson
      8. Bob Baker
      9. Zora Folley
      10. Wayne Bethea

    The first defence is very good in Tommy Jackson, who he'd had that SD win against and is ranked no1. He then defends against Olympic Gold medalist Rademacher with zero pro fights. Given that it's only a month later, I guess you allow a gimme. But then he takes a year out and these are the ratings Feb 1958

    Floyd Patterson, Champion

    1. Eddie Machen
    2. Zora Folley
    3. Willie Pastrano
    4. Roy Harris
    5. Pat McMurtry
    6. Nino Valdes
    7. Mike DeJohn
    8. Wayne Bethea
    9. Alex Miteff
    10. Ingemar Johansson
    Harris would go onto beat Pastrano so I assume he was ranked third. But this is the start of a huge avoidance of Folley and Machen. from 56-60 - Folley would go 30-1-1 - the only defeat was a controversial hometown decision to Henry Cooper, which probably didn't lose. Machen was undefeated during this period. Folley and Machen really should of got title shots before Harris, but maybe Harris was more marketable as an unbeaten white boxer.

    Floyd Patterson, Champion

    1. Ingemar Johansson
    2. Nino Valdes
    3. Zora Folley
    4. Henry Cooper
    5. Willie Pastrano
    6. Archie Moore
    7. Eddie Machen
    8. Brian London
    9. Sonny Liston
    10. Mike DeJohn
    Above Feb 1959 rankings. The context is Folley lost a hometown decision to Cooper, who got knocked down and ripped to shreds. Only the ref judged it. Folley later took Cooper out in 2 rounds. Ingo had just won a 1st round KO against Machen and had beaten Cooper and Erksine as European Champ. Still Ingo had a thin resume and was a tad lucky to get his title shot.

    So Patterson fights Brian London who had gone 1-1 against Pastrano, winning the last, beat Erksine but lost to Cooper. this is an okay defense and it does seem a warm up as Ingo is next

    So then he loses to Ingo and we arguably rightly have that trilogy. Patterson obviously has to win his title back and they were great fights. The problem is that ties the world title down for nearly 3 years.

    He then fights Tom McNeely after another 9 months, who I can't find top 10 in 61 or 62 rankings and I doubt he ever made it as top 10, as he didn't beat any top 10 fighters

    Eventually after another 10 months so 3 years and 3 months after Ingo 1, we get uncrowned champion Sonny Liston vs Patterson against DeAmato's wishes. Ironically Patterson would go on to beat Machen and Cooper. Would he have beat Folley? I think so given he largely dominated Machen. Based on that he very probably beats bigger men like Valdes and Baker.

    Ironically Patterson probably beats everyone before Liston and would have a much better chance after being better battle seasoned for Liston. If he'd taken out Baker and Valdes, Liston's size wouldn't have been as intimidating. If he'd taken on Machen and Folley, he'd get hard rounds that would prep him better. He probably still loses but a more confident, more polished Patterson with a refined defense from harder fights might just pull it off.
     
  2. Woller1

    Woller1 Member Full Member

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    Please remember that Cus did not want to have Floyd fight any boxers with IBC connections. He kept the mob away from the heavyweight title. In a fair world Floyd should have fought Folley and Machen.
     
  3. HistoryZero26

    HistoryZero26 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Given that he circled back to fight Machen Folleys the big one. During Pattersons reign 4 fighters won number one contender fights Liston, Folley, Ingo and Machen and he eventually did fight them all except Folley.

    Baker would have been an interesting fight but Baker lost the close fights he needed to win to make that happen.

    An unintended side effect of the process to name Marcianos successor was that said successor didn't have to fight the 4 best bigmen in the division in Baker, Valdes, Parker and Holman. Turns out doing a bunch of eliminators a bunch of people from contention. Who knew.

    The Cleveland Williams people will clamor that he should have fought Cleveland Williams and Williams would beat Patterson. They might be right but the losses to Satterfield and Liston made it so that Williams was not in this picture.
     
  4. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    McNeeley was rated 9Tth by the Ring when he fought Patterson.
    NBA had him rated 10th in September but he dropped out after that.
     
  5. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    I think a Baker or Valdez would have been an excellent opportunity to hone his skills against big men that could punch. They weren't as good as Liston, but good enough to be top contenders. I would throw Cleveland Williams in there, but he wasn't a contender so a Patterson/Williams fight likely wouldn't happen.
     
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  6. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    Looking at the list, I don't see Williams as a contender
     
  7. Steve Fero

    Steve Fero Active Member Full Member

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    As of Feb 62 Williams was rated 7th. Some talk that Machen was compromised by the time Floyd fought him in 64. Mental health issues. Though Patterson said he didn’t go for knockout when he could have out of pity.
    For the younger pre 59 Floyd Folley and Machen would have been stiff tests Cus knew it.
     
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  8. newurban99

    newurban99 Active Member Full Member

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    I don't believe Floyd or Cus feared Zora Folley. Patterson would have beaten Folley handily. Zora was too slow to beat Floyd. Although it may have appeared that he ducked Folley, I think it was a matter of timing. Machen was better than Zora but he probably would've gotten a title shot if he hadn't been knocked out by Ingo. Really, the only fighter in the division who posed a threat was Liston, and Floyd did duck him at Cus's behest. Williams and DeJohn both were big punchers but I think Patterson's speed would have been too much for either one. And neither man won consistently enough to put them in position for a shot. Overall, the division was weak but I blame this on Marciano's early retirement. Had Rocky stuck around to fight Patterson, this would be a completely different conversation. In a match between the two, I'd pick Patterson over Rocky. There's an argument to be made that Marciano ducked Floyd by retiring.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2026
  9. SolomonDeedes

    SolomonDeedes Active Member Full Member

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    The NBA initially refused to sanction Patterson's defence against the unranked McNeeley, even floating the idea of stripping him of the title. But they backed down, and McNeeley mysteriously popped up in their #10 spot shortly after the fight was signed despite having been inactive for 6 months. Not the only time the NBA/WBA pulled this trick. I'm looking at Terry Daniels and Joe Roman.
     
  10. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    Wasn't Patterson at light heavyweight when Marciano retired? And it wasn't like Patterson was a dominant light heavyweight champion that everyone was expecting to move up and have his eye on the heavyweight crown.
     
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  11. Steve Fero

    Steve Fero Active Member Full Member

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    Floyd was very young and you fight enough bigger hard punching opponents and you might lose. Machen and Folley were the best of the contenders except for Liston of course. Ingo over Machen was just a first time surprise like the first Patterson fight.
     
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  12. newurban99

    newurban99 Active Member Full Member

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    Patterson in 1955 was viewed as a potential challenger for the heavyweight crown, as he was 20 and still growing. And he was already a sensation after a string of exciting performances against middleweights and light heavyweights. Until then, nobody had seen a heavyweight with that kind of blazing hand speed. Floyd fought Archie Moore at 182 pounds in 1956, the year Marciano retired. Had Rocky stuck around and fought Floyd, he would have carried a weight advantage of about five pounds. That fight would have excited the public and filled a baseball park. Marciano, who loved money, didn't seem to want that fight or else he wouldn't have retired. Cus D'Amato didn't seem eager for it, either, but I believe the fight could've been made. If anyone knows different, speak up.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2026
  13. newurban99

    newurban99 Active Member Full Member

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    McNeeley was a chance for Floyd to make easy money (risk-free) via closed circuit in movie theaters. That fight was shown as half of a double-header with Liston-Westphal the other featured attraction. As such, it was part of a long buildup to Patterson-Liston.
     
  14. Philosopher

    Philosopher Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Rico Verhoven...guaranteed ATG status then...

    Actually, all joking aside...Floyd v Usyk...what say y'all...?
     
  15. MaccaveliMacc

    MaccaveliMacc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Usyk destroys him.