Does Sullivan have any claim to being the youngest champion ever?

I’m mainly talking about people who still regard Patterson as the youngest champ ever due to a lower regard for alphabet belts, would the same apply to John L. here? Goss was the reigning champ

From Adam Pollack’s 2016 Sullivan book, page 17:

On Tuesday April 6, 1880 in Boston's Music Hall, the 5'9" 178-pound 42-year-old Joe Goss gave a gloved "exhibition" against the 5'10 ½" 190-pound 21-year-old Sullivan, "the coming man." 1,800 spectators witnessed the bout.

Sullivan dominated. In the 1st round, Sullivan exhibited skill and “planted blow after blow with his left on the face of the champion." Even when Goss occasionally landed, Sullivan countered him.

In the 2nd round, after several rapid exchanges, Sullivan landed "no less than four sledge-hammer-like blows upon the right ear of Goss, and the latter went reeling to the floor. He was assisted to his feet by the master of ceremonies, who, thinking that the champion had only slipped, left him to get to a seat upon the stage." However, "Goss went reeling like a drunken man about the stage, and the danger of his falling among the audience was so great that the master of ceremonies at last realizing his situation, at once caught him and assisted him to a sitting on the platform." Goss was wobbly and out of it. In today's world of boxing, it would be a technical knockout.

Goss was given time to recover, somewhat in LPR fashion. Sullivan promised to spar lightly with him for another round, so Goss agreed.& Goss later was quoted as saying of Sullivan that a blow from "that damned savage is worse than the kick of a horse."

This bout really put Sullivan's name on the map. In essentially stopping Goss in 2 rounds, it was obvious that he was the best fighter in the country, if not the world. However, because it was a Queensberry rules exhibition and not a "real" fight to the finish under LPR rules, Sullivan was not considered the champion by the traditional fight purists, because he had not defeated Goss via the accepted championship rules. In truth, even at this point, he was the best gloved Queensberry rules fighter in the world.

However, there were no gloved champions to defeat, because there was no such thing as a Queensberry rules champion.

Sullivan was 21 years and 5 months old when he fought Goss whereas Patterson was 21 years and 10 months old when he fought Moore.

 

If Sullivan and Miller fought in the early 1880s the lineage would be a lot less confusing. Apparently Paddy Ryan beat Miller with the gloves as well before he fought Sullivan, so things get even more confusing.

 

Sullivan definitely seemed to improve as a grappler later on due to Muldoon, but he also seemed to be in a different class as a boxer compared to Miller and keep in mind Miller never fought anyone as explosive or powerful Sullivan either. Ryan tried grappling with Sullivan too and it didn't do him much good, Flood did as well and the reports I've read specifically emphasized how Sullivan's explosive short punches on the inside prevented that from happening. Would Miller know how to deal with that type of power?

That being said, people overlook Miller way too much. Beating Larry Foley is an incredible feat and from what I've read apparently he didn't solely incorporate wrestling to do it. He probably had some hands.

 

https://www.loc.gov/resource/sn83030272/1879-04-30/ed-1/?sp=1&r=0.629,0.37,0.408,0.212,0

 

Miller was certainly more proven than Ryan was, but keep in mind that Miller also beat Goss under the same circumstances;

1878-12-20 The Sun (Baltimore, MD) (page 1)
Boxing with Gloves--A Victory for Wm. Miller.-- "A sparring exhibition with blackened gloves, between William Miller, of Baltimore, and Joe Goss, of Boston, was given last night in Maryland Institute, to a very large audience, composed entirely of men. The rules of the match were that only face hits should count, and that each round should last three minutes, with as intermission of one minute between each round. Arthur Chambers, of Philadelphia, served as judge for Goss, John McGraw, of Baltimore city, for Miller, and James Randolph referee.

Precisely at 8:30 P. M. the men appeared on the stage dressed in white tights and colored trunks. Both seemed equally matched, although Goss was a few pounds the heavier of the two, and seemed to have more fat than Miller, the muscles of whose arms and legs stood out like whipcord. Time being called, the combatants shook hands and faced each other in the centre of the stage. After a little cautious sparring on the part of both and as eager watching of each other's tactics, Miller led out with his left, but was quickly stopped by Goss. The latter then tried a right hander, but Miller countered, and with a swift upper cut from his left sent a blow right to Goss' cheek, driving him back to the painted canvas in the rear, thus scoring the first point. When the mark had been washed off, time was called. After some very pretty feints Goss led out and touched Miller, but before he could get away Miller followed him with a hard blow on the cheek.

Again they moved around with caution, each seemingly determined that the other should have no advantage. With a quick left-hander Miller again got Goss on the cheek, but before he could spring back the latter returned it, thus ending the round, the score standing 3 to 2.
In the next round Miller seemed to force the fighting, and Goss, getting on his mettle, sprung forward and countered on Miller's forehead, but Miller, with a rapid cut, struck back, and Goss's whole face showed the result of the blow. Goss now assumed the offensive, and delivered two blows in rapid succession, but the referee only allowed one point. Miller tried to lead Goss on with some shrewd feints, but Goss was wary and the round was ended. Goss again tried to lead Miller out, and the latter was not slow to gratify him. Watching his opportunity, Goss struck over Miller's guard, but Miller, lowering his head, caught the blow on his neck, and with a swift shoulder hit delivered one which left Goss as black as a chimney sweep. A few body blows were exchanged, and with a rapid counter and cross-counter both men were marked on the cheek. Blow for blow followed on the breast, and Goss was again touched on the forehead.
In the fifth round the sparring was as scientific as a sportsman could desire. There was countering, quick return, and rattling blows, both men winning a point. Goss resumed his old tactics of drawing Miller off his guard, and with a rapid cut from his left struck him on the face, but Goss was not active enough, and before he could get away Miller returned the blow with interest.

In the next bout Miller scored his point, and both he and Goss began to warm to their work. Round and round the stage, feinting, guarding and dodging, Miller was driven to a corner, and, with a swift shoulder hit, Goss scored his point.
Equally as good science was shown in the succeeding round, Miller's agility and watchfulness being favorably commented upon. Close quarters were soon reached, and each one got a terrific left-hander. In the following bout the blows came equally as rapidly, but Miller's skill stood him well in stead, and saved him from several of Goss's well-directed blows. Goss was pushed to the corner and received a face blow, but paid it back. Goss now began to crowd Miller, and after a quick feint let out from the left shoulder, and Miller dodged like a cat, but not quickly enough, for Goss, shifting to his right, scored with a clean upper cut."

Sullivan, on the other hand, beat Goss under more traditional Queensbury gloved rules. I'd say he has a better claim than Miller does though it's not like Miller has no claim altogether.

 

No idea, you’d have to ask rhe premier historians on the era like @apollack, @Senya13, @SimonLock.

I wouldn’t mind seeing these come back honestly, I’ve already seen people on YouTube try recreating London prize ring rule fights and there’s already a lot of gimmicky fights in boxing already like Jake Paul so why not? Seems like people enjoying seeing it judging by those descriptions.

 

It seems, to me, like the only other claim out there could've been laid by Miller? I read an article of him officially challenging Sullivan at some point, and after he beat Foley was there any other Australian title claimant out there?