Was Frazier past his prime in Kingston?

Duran was immensely motivated against Davey Moore as well, I'd almost argue even more so than vs Hagler and Barkley. His energy and ferociousness against Moore was something everyone thought was gone forever. He was strong against Pipino Cuevas as well but people found it hard to judge due to not knowing if Pipino was shot or how far he was gone.

 

The Thrilla in Manilla was two dudes who were both on the downside of their careers. So, Frazier's performance must be viewed in relief of Ali's declining abilities. I find that fight a bit sad, to be honest. Glorious and sad.

 

He also wasn't built for a long prime in the division. His window was a short but incendiary prime, like a Tyson or Dempsey (minus the years off banging starlets). He was a stumpy, sub-6 footer with a mangled right arm, short reach, bad eyes, bad blood pressure, bad diet, not overly strong... but more dog in him than a hundred underwear models like Joshua.

If the cards you've been dealt give you the greatest win in this history of the division rather than a long tenure spanking contenders, you still play them.

 

I don’t think Frazier was the type of fighter who was ever going to age very well. His style and early career wear and tear made it inevitable. So yes. I believe his better days were behind him by the time he fought Foreman. So exactly HOW diminished was he ? Impossible to measure.. he was however still only 29 years old and the undefeated reigning champion. So it’s hard to make a case that he was completely “shot.”

 

Agreed. It wrecked both men

 

I think both men were kinda wrecked coming in. They certainly were upon leaving.

 

He was past his best . Not by much but the reality is all sub 6ft heavyweights are usually done by 29/30 .

 

Perceptive answer,he was overconfident and not in the best of shape.At his best I don't think the result against George would have been any different,Frazier could only fight one way,swarm forward.That is a recipe for disaster against a bigger ,stronger , harder puncher.I would say he was still in his prime years at 29,but had lost focus and concentration on his career.I think he and Durham thought,lets get this big guy now before he improves.Gross miscalculation.

 

I know you believe the best Frazier beats the best Ali because of styles,and of course its a valid opinion ,given the problems Ali had with him.I think the Ali we never saw,the one who was denied the right to box would have beaten the best Frazier,just my take.

 

My apologies. I was just in a bad mood because I could t find my keys lol

 

After the FOTC where Frazier was fit as a fiddle 205lb but more than the wars his sudden worldwide fame and lifestyle changed. Woman and partying, his band and the night scene.
Frazier still had some left but lost the edge before the Foreman fight - Frazier was an offensive fighter but the extra weight and less than prime was not going to be effective against a fit Foreman. Remember Frazier went down six times but got up six times, so his heart was in the fight, but the ducking bobbing and weaving was off.

 

He was past his prime in terms of aggression and the vigor he had to win. I don't think anyone is washed at 29 years old, but he hit his pinnacle and didn't have the drive to win that he did against Ali. A good counter example would be Ali actually, losing the title due to Vietnam, then losing to Frazier in the FOTC, those experiences where gave him the strength of will to fight 14 times between the FOTC and and Rumble in the Jungle going 13-1.