Archie Moore vs Ezzard Charles — Who is the true GOAT of Light Heavyweight?

For me, its mostly over-all. Any given night can change the h2h results.

 

Related specifically to these two, I have to go with Archie Moore. I consider being a champion, especially before the alphabet organizations came into prominence, to be an extremely important factor.

Charles may have been better head-to-head but as far as being the goat, that has to be the Ol’ Mongoose.

 

Neither. Its John Henry Lewis.

Of these 2 Moore. The trilogy isn't enough to swing it.

 

Lots of great light heavyweights:

Tommy Gibbons, Billy Conn, Jimmy Bivins, Artur Beterbiev, Maxie Rosenbloom, Dmitri Bivol, Jimmy Slattery, Jack Dillon, Roy Jones Jr., etc.

It's impossible to honestly say which one was the best.

 

Greb has the best LHW resume in history even though hes essentially a MW..

Estimated Record at Light-Heavyweight

Ezzard Charles: 36-2-1

Harry Greb: 83-5-3

Notes: Greb’s record is harder to nail down. Fight weights were not always given, nor were divisions as well-defined. Therefore, inference was necessary for a quite a few of Greb’s opponents. The final numbers are likely still skewed, but probably not by much.

When weights were available I counted fights where one or both fighters were 165+ pounds and didn’t exceed 180 pounds, unless it was obvious someone was campaigning at heavyweight, ala Gene Tunney in the last Greb fight. There were a few exceptions, like Charles’ victory over Anton Christoforidis. Though neither weighed 165 or greater, Christoforidis was rated in the top-10 at light-heavyweight. Greb also had a few on-the-line. An example is one of his contests with a 165-pound Chuck Wiggins who was clearing boiling down but generally mixed it up above middleweight.

Number of Hall of Famers Fought and Record Against Them

Ezzard Charles: 6—Teddy Yarosz (1-0), Ken Overlin (0-0-1), Joey Maxim (2-0), Jimmy Bivins (3-1), Lloyd Marshall (2-1) and Archie Moore (3-0)

11-2-1

Harry Greb: 8—Battling Levinsky (6-0), Billy Miske (2-0), Kid Norfolk (1-1), Tommy Gibbons (2-1), Gene Tunney (1-2-1), Tommy Loughran (4-1-1), Tiger Flowers (1-0) and Maxie Rosenbloom (1-0)

18-5-2

Notes: Charles’ two defeats were clear, as he was knocked down 12 times in the back-to-back losses to Bivins and Marshall. Both occurred as he was working his way up and Ezzard got his revenge. Charles was never on the losing end at his best.

Two of Greb’s defeats were hotly disputed, the second Tunney fight and the fourth bout with Loughran. Two of the losses were comprehensive, with one coming at his peak, a 6-round decision to Tommy Gibbons. The other was a DQ against Kid Norfolk that few felt was solely Greb’s fault.

Number of Champions Fought and Record Against Them

Ezzard Charles: 3—Joey Maxim, Gus Lesnevich and Archie Moore

5-0

Harry Greb: 5—Jack Dillon, Battling Levinsky, Mike McTigue, Tommy Loughran and Maxie Rosenbloom

15-1-1

Notes: Charles stopped Lesnevich when they were both heavyweights; Greb beat McTigue and Dillon at middleweight.

Historically Ranked Opponents

Ezzard Charles: 3—Archie Moore (#1 by IBRO/#2 by The Ring), Jimmy Bivins (#18 by IBRO/#6 by The Ring) and Joey Maxim (#25 by IBRO/#14 by The Ring).

Harry Greb: 7—Gene Tunney (#4 by IBRO/#18 by The Ring), Tommy Loughran (#6 by IBRO/#4 by The Ring), Maxie Rosenbloom (#11 by IBRO/#8 by The Ring), Tommy Gibbons (#14 by IBRO/NR by The Ring), Jack Dillon (#16 by IBRO/#12 by The Ring), Battling Levinsky (#20 by IBRO/#13 by The Ring) and Kid Norfolk (#27 by IBRO/NR by The Ring).

Notes: The International Boxing Research Organization and The Ring were chosen on merit—one being the most prestigious historical research vehicle; the other being the sport’s most recognizable publication.

Footnote: Not my work but I think it gives an incite into just how great Greb was even stacked against someone as special Ezzard Charles.

 

But is it Charle's fault that he couldn't get a shot because he was black?

He went where the opportunity was and won heavyweight belt. Is what it is.

 

Archie Moore for me

 

Number one was definitely the Cincinnati Cobra, Ezzard Charles who cleaned out the light-HW division before moving up to win the HW title at 181 lbs.

Honorable mention:

Archie Moore
Billy Conn was two rounds from beating the great Joe Louis. so you gotta consider him in the mix.
John Henry Lewis
Harold Johnson
Bob Foster
Michael Spinks
Sam Langford
Roy Jones Jr

 

Thats not why he didn't get a shot. He was in the 4 man LHW tournament and got beaten in the SFs by Bivins then Marshall in his rebound fight. Got knocked down a dozen times. Both Bivins and Marshall became duration champions.

Then later on when Charles went on his 2nd win streak lets be honest Fox(also black) would get a title shot over Ezzard Charles today too. 46-0 100% KO rate. Fox is getting that shot once we take the blinders off and remove our knowledge of what happens next.

 

Maybe duration champions Gus Lesnevich never gave shots to black fighters outside of Billy Fox.

 

I did a good post awhile back breaking down the timeline. It was Fox and Mills which was a unifier. So it was 1/2. Or 2/4 because he gave Fox 2 shots.

The duration title was phased about because WW2 was much shorter than originally planned for. In early 1943 Nazi Germany being out by early 1945 was pretty unthinkable.