Recency bias is insane, ESB has turned into "Any HW who just won a fight could beat Ali"

Before Usyk Molly whopped Fury twice folks had him as the goat.

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Now that Usyk beat him he’s apparently nothing.

 

The outcome of an Usyk v. Ali fight is pointless speculation, but I'd like to point out that this post right here is the problem with nostalgia merchants and why their arguments are always extremely flawed.

Dynamicpuncher is talking about Usyk having competitive fights at HW and implying how a PRIME Ali would clearly do better versus Usyk than those guys.

You see the problem there? DP has this mythical PRIME version of Ali in his mind that could beat God Himself with one arm tied behind his back. Except that Ali doesn't exist. He never did. It's a problem with the human brain that it looks back on events from the past and only picks out the best moments while ignoring things that don't fit into that rosy narrative. Fighters of the current day and age don't get that same consideration because we're watching their careers unfold live. There's no mythical PRIME Usyk that we pick out to compare him with old timers.

DP talks about Usyk having competitive fights with the current guys at HW. Yeah, those guys outweigh him by 20, 40, and 60 pounds while also being inches taller! Something Ali never had to deal with! Also, Usyk was already THIRTY FOUR when he first beat AJ to become Unified HW champ. He was THIRTY FREAKING SEVEN when he beat Fury to become Undisputed! Usyk cleared out these bigger, taller, stronger HWs when he already an old man by boxing standards! Ali was 29 when he lost to Frazier, 31 when he lost to Norton. At 38 years old he was getting the **** beat out of him by Larry Holmes and sent into retirement. At 38 years old Usyk knocked out a 6'5 250 pound brick shithouse who is considered one of the hardest punchers in the division and he did it IN FIVE ROUNDS! That ain't PRIME Usyk. That's Old Man Usyk doing that.

So you see how easy it is to denigrate current day fighters while glazing the hell out of a guy from ages back. It's easy to ignore Ali being floored by 185 pound Henry Cooper and needing smelling salts in the corner. It's easy to ignore the fact the judges robbed Norton multiple times in favor of Ali. Or how his most dominant win over Cleveland Williams was against a guy who still had a bullet from the police in him and had nerve damage in his leg. All of that can easily be swept under the rug to let this mythical PRIME Ali be held up like a God. You can't sweep low points from current fighters under the rug because they just happened.

It's the same reason people think music was better back in the day. It's because it was the music they grew up with and now all they listen to is the Classic Rock station which only plays the hits from back then. It doesn't play all the stinkers that never went anywhere. Your brain is screwing with you and you're not being objective.

And yes, recency bias is a thing. It's an extremely short-lived thing, however. It's people seeing Bakole KO'ing a prospect level Jared Anderson, claiming Bakole is the new boogeyman of the division, and then dropping it almost immediately when Bakole gets stopped by Parker and looks terrible versus Ajagbe. Just how this recent idiocy with claiming Benevidez could beat Usyk will disappear in a few months when Bivol makes him look slow and stupid and/or Opetaia knocks his head off. Nostalgia bias is the much more insidious of the two because it hangs around and tends to get worse as time goes on.

 

I love how you think my post is the issue but not the other poster saying Usyk would demolish Ali.

Also I'm not sure what you are even ranting about TBH.

I never claimed Ali or Usyk would win ?

Nor did I even discredit Usyk ?

Saying "Usyk has had competitive fights at Heavyweight"

Is not discrediting Usyk....how in the world did you come to that conclusion ?

Its basically saying the suggestion that Usyk dominates Ali is silly. And that their fight would more than likely be highly competitive.

The fact you think that's discrediting Usyk is absolutely wild.

Especially since predicting Usyk having a very close fight vs what many people perceive as the number 1 Heavyweight of all time is surely to Usyk's credit as a fighter ?

Infact the only one discrediting anyone here or showing a clear sign bias here is you.

You're bringing up losses Ali had at age 38 suggesting because he was the same age as Usyk they're comparable.

Not taking into account the totally different journeys both fighters had. And the fact Ali took way more punishment than Usyk as a professional over a much longer sustained period of time.

Hence Ali had alot more wear and tear and fighters age very differently which is quite obvious.

Also I'm not a "nostalgic merchant" I'm calling out a bad post in regards to the suggestion that Usyk would destroy Ali.

I also never said "Ali has a mythical prime and was unbeatable and that he would beat God with one arm tied behind his back"

That's you heavily exaggerating putting words in my mouth.

 

I’ve got no problem whenever someone wins a heavyweight title an people quickly ask how he matches up with past champs including all time greats at the weight class. Past an current champs in the same weight classes are always been compared to each other an always will.

What does **** me off a lot more is the totally over the top amount of dumb p4p threads where we get asked things like who’s better, this flea weight champ who has beaten 10 other flea weight fighters, is he better p4p than Ali or ray robinson? Or is this guy a better p4p lightweight than this other fighter is a p4p cruserweight? Just crazy comparison that makes no sense at all. P4P is not real, it’s all imaginary, subjective, make believe, however you want to describe it but it’s just all gotten outta hand here

 

I'm far from a Shakur fan but he would give anyone problems

I just wouldn't pay to see it

 

Truthfully they're both equally bad. Recency bias is not an extremely short lived thing, however, because it's still going on today.

 

Yes, because Joe Rogan and Brendanwhatshisname think Tyson Fury is the GOAT, that must make him the GOAT. Got it. By that logic, Tyson could knock out Usyk in one round too, because casual fans think Tyson could do that to everyone. Fury doesn’t even have an all time great resume, sorry.

 

Hrgovic would definitely beat Ali after battering Dave Allen. What a win!

 

Sounds like a strawman. Anyone pointing out Usyks mortality and his wins over three ranked heavyweight are in response to claims of Usyk being the pfp goat and him beating everyone boxer in history

 

I'd say both are just as bad.

I remember seeing threads after Joyce beat Parker who's a good/solid Heavyweight but not upper echelon by any means.

They were calling Joyce the next George Foreman and favouring him over a prime Tyson.

Likewise after Zhang beat Joyce he was being favoured over a prime Ali.

The only win Zhang has ever had in his entire life over a top 10 ranked Heavyweight. And he automatically gets picked over ATG Heavyweights ?

And there's numerous other examples of terrible posts and knee jerk reactions based on recent bias.

I think most of the notable posters whether they prefer the older era or modern era heavily respect Usyk.

He's a throwback to the older generation of Heavyweights being a bit smaller on average than the modern Heavyweights. And he showcases his skills rather than being big and lumbering.

So I think Usyk has the right credentials to be respected by both type of fans.

The only thing I don't like is whenever Usyk is matched up with other past Heavyweights people just straight up lie.

Like in a recent Usyk/Tyson thread people are saying Tyson gasses after 4 rounds ? And then starts swinging wildly ?

And I'm thinking to myself have these people ever actually watched Tyson's fights ? Or am I being trolled here ?

Likewise people who are too nostalgic say Usyk gets destroyed by Ali and that is also absolute rubbish aswell.

I also don't like the fact people call you a hater if you have any type valid criticism

If I don't agree that Usyk is the GOAT that doesn't make me a hater.

If I'm a bit frustrated that I want to see Usyk fight a bit more than once a year if he holds all the belts that doesn't make a hater.

We've had this conversation many times before Serge and I think the best posters on this site will have a balanced opinion on both eras which is how it should be.

 

Your interpretation, they are downplaying Usyk just as much as you downplay all time greats from the past who have beaten more top heavyweights than Usyk, and a size limit has never existed in the heavyweight division btw.

Who you think beat better opposition is quite a bit more subjective than # of title defenses and wins over top 10 opposition

 

The other side to your argument is, that boxing was actually way more popular and had the highest earning athletes.

Nowadays every good athlete goes to basketball, baseball, football etc. Leaving little for boxing.

Ali was great. Usyk is great. There are modern and past greats. Obviously, sports science evolves, too. And doping also does.