Holyfield (Bowe 1) 205 lbs Vs. Frazier (FOTC) 205 lbs

Yea sure, and how about the times Frazier nearly got KO'd and the times he actually got KO'd

 

I agree,Fergy. Joe stops Evander sometime late in a war.

 

If Bonavena and Quarry could land hard on Joe and stop him in his tracks image what effect Holyfield would have. He’s more powerfull faster and stronger than those guys. Is it at the level where he can hurt Frazier early and then it snowballs? Or can Frazier shake it off as he did with Oscar and Jerry. Maybe he avoids the early KO but I don’t think he can for the whole fight. Evander also unlike anyone Frazier faced can match him for endurance and toughness. Holyfield will be there connecting with power shots the whole way.
Decision or late tko for Holyfield.

 

This thread is about the time when Joe Frazier scored the greatest victory in the history of the heavyweight division. Let's play with those dice.

 

The Boxer - Puncher, Holyfield, needs to be the puncher against the inside swarmer, Frazier. Joe Frazier was one tough fighter, with great stamina, so I am going with Evander Holyfield by a hard fought Decision.

 

Holyfield isn’t faster than Ali and nor does he hit harder. Holyfield does have a bit better left hook than Ali but Ali has a better right hand. And Ali threw the kitchen sink at Frazier and couldn’t stop him.

 

This fight will come down to stamina and maintaining and controlling distance. Frazier at his best was a tad better. If Holy remains calm and sticks to a plan he could win from his superior hand speed and combos but he also had a tendency to want to trade when it got going. 55/45 in favor of Frazier

 

Even the greatest had one weakness and that was his power. Evander while no Shavers was clearly more powerful then Ali. He doesn't have the defense or quite the skills Ali had but is just as fast strong tough has as good stamina as the post layoff Ali. If it’s prime Holyfield at 205 Frazier may put up a great fight but can’t beat him. Evander is too powerful fast and good.

 

I respect your opinion but i don't understand how Evander was "clearly" more powerful than Ali. Ali does have a track record of stopping more durable fighters.

I have no problem saying Evander had a better left hook but Ali has a good left hook too (see vs Bonavena and Bugner 1). Ali, to me, had the better right hand (see vs Lyle as an example)

 

Fair enough but, in that case, this should be the Holyfield who entered the ring against Douglas. He was razor sharp that night and mentally attuned to fight the perfect fight. If we're choosing the absolute best Joe, it's only fair we pit him against the very best Evander. In Bowe 1 he had one foot in retirement, was lighter than he should have been and fought a naive fight

 

I'm taking Frazier by UD. Lots of folks are correctly saying that Holyfield is the more versatile fighter but his biggest flaw is he never could back down from a fight. Frazier would pressure him like he always did and Holy would come right back at him which is a mistake. It's simply how Holyfield is built and it is what made him great. This would be a great fight between to of the greatest warriors in heavyweight history.

 

Frazier would force his rhythm and momentum here, especially later on where he would actually be picking up the pace and really forcing the issue. Holy also wouldn't have the overall speed advantage here like he had against bigger men he fought.

On a technical level a shorter guy with great head movement and speed, intense pressure footwork, who comes with shots from up low, is a bit of a nightmare for a guy who relies almost totally on his foot speed, in and out movement, for defense like Holy. Up close Holy's defense was pretty average, head movement wasn't top level and blocking and parrying was hit and miss when standing up close, which is not good enough against a dogged swarmer like Joe who would be in front of you all night long. As we all know Holy also had negative ring iq sometimes, electing to stand and trade with guys when he had absolutely no business doing so. This would absolutely come into effect here. Can't teach a dog new tricks in that regard.

Frazier's left hook will quite obviously be landing here. However, don't neglect Frazier's right to the body, a very underrated shot from him. He was great at digging it in after bobbing and weaving and would really be useful at shutting down Holy's jab, which he really needed to start up his combination punching offensive.

Personally, I see it being competitive at first but Frazier taking over down the stretch due to previous points. Frazier UD

 

Holyfield. If pressed, he lands good punches from every angle. Everybody brings up Holyfield-Qawi.. yep.. See: Holyfield-Qawi 2

When it comes to left hooks these are the two very best (Ali isn't in there). And if Holyfield is in position to throw punches downward sloping.. well.. you know. It could go the distance, I suppose, but I think Holyfield wins by KO 13. Holyfield packed a punch, and it could come suddenly, even when he looks tired.

I know this is the classic board, old time homies stuff, but I have to rank Holyfield just a sliver above Frazier. He was more versatile, as somebody said.. Holyfield fought every single type of fighter, for years and years.

The hard luck champion, coming after golden boy Tyson

 

Holyfield by decision in a war. I believe Evander was just as tough as Joe, but more technical and efficient. Holyfield could also match and beat Joe at close range with uppercuts and dirty boxing in addition to utilizing straight punches at distance. Stamina-wise, I think it's even, which is an area where Joe almost always has a huge advantage. Holyfield would be a rare opponent that Frazier couldn't outright dominate with toughness, volume or cardio. Smokin' Joe makes it a hellacious fight, wins rounds, staggers Holyfield badly. Joe would also get rocked and I think Holyfield's consistency would show through by the final rounds.

For Frazier, the Bert Cooper comparison is good, Frazier could crack Holyfield and make it a dogfight if Cooper was able to do it. I do however think Bert had different dimensions than Frazier and had a different approach to fighting than Joe did in that stage of his career. Cooper was also a tough out for anyone at his best and no pushover. His fight vs. Moorer is truly fantastic as well. Frazier could make this scenario happen, Holyfield was happy to brawl and although I don't see Holyfield getting knocked out Frazier could win rounds and control of the fight this way. Holyfield would box during the lulls in the action and the war parts of the fight would wear on Frazier more than Evander.

I guess right now, I view Holyfield vs. Frazier as an even more brutal version of Holyfield vs. Foreman. Long, brutal exchanges with lots of attrition over rounds and some worn-down pure heart slugging. Would Frazier's increased activity relative to Foreman close the gap on the cards? Potentially. Frazier may struggle to take some of the punches that Holyfield laid on Foreman that night. Holyfield would get it done. I don't see him getting bullied, especially at his best. Without being able to impose his will, Frazier's gameplan takes a dramatic hit. Holyfield's versatility gives him the victory for me in an epic fight.