So now we have several new HW title holders

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by bailey, Jul 3, 2026.


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  1. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    You have jumped in a bit, midway in a conversation and jumped to conclusions.
    I haven't turned for or against anyone.
    It was a hypothetical conversation, complete fantasy about a HW tournament
    See below

    Let's say there was suddenly a wbss style HW tournament. In it is

    4 top men
    Kabayel, Dubois, Gassiev and Sanchez
    Opponents picked due to possible fights already lined up or discussed

    Round 1
    A. Dubois vs Wardley (rematch) (WBO title fight)
    B. Gassiev vs Joyce (WBA title fight)
    C. Sanchez vs Hrgovic/Itauma winner (vacant IBF title fight)
    D. Kabayel vs Miller (WBC title fight)

    You decide how you think Hrgovic/Itauma goes and who will be facing who

    Round 2
    A vs B (for WBO and WBA Super HW title)
    C vs D (for WBC and IBF HW titles

    Final
    For the unified possibly lineal title

    If Usyk is not defending against a top 10 opponent or no fight annouced or agreed within a year (agreed date can be later than a year), could it then be a new lineage?


    That was the gist
    Now that has nothing to do with if anyone else fights Rico
     
    bailey, Jul 7, 2026
    bailey, Jul 7, 2026
    #46
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  2. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    I remember your video
    I just struggle to agree with how someone can be considered lineal champion if they don't fight for a year and don't have a fight planned against at least one top 10 rated opponent.
    In the case of Fury he didn't fight for around two and a half years and ggen fought Seferi and Pianetta
    I just can't see how they can remain champion when retired
    You could make Lewis lineal champion
     
    bailey, Jul 7, 2026
    bailey, Jul 7, 2026
    #47
    Rumsfeld likes this.
  3. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    In a world where one guy beats a whole collection of paper champs in a tournament ... while the lineal champ is still fighting ... the guy beating the collection of paper champs still has to beat the lineal champ to become lineal.

    While Tyson was beating Berbick, Smith, Tucker, Thomas, Biggs, Holmes, Tubbs ... and Michael Spinks was fighting Stefan Tangstead ... Tyson still had to beat Spinks to become lineal.

    The current heavyweight landscape is actually the opposite of that ... as the lineal champ Usyk beat Fury twice, Joshua twice, the current WBO champ Dubois twice, the current WBA champ Gassiev, and Rico ... and now Kabayel wants to fight Rico, too ...

    And fans are looking for ways to give the lineal title to Kabayel or Gassiev by proposing a tournament that doesn't include Usyk.

    It just doesn't work.

    If there's a whole tournament ... and Usyk's still active ... the winner of the tournament has to beat Usyk to become lineal champ.

    If the tournament was won by Dubois ... or Gassiev ... and Usyk's active, how would they be considered the World Champ over him? He has three wins against them. It's no different if the winner was someone Usyk hadn't faced yet.

    Usyk's the champ until he loses ... or doesn't fight anymore. Belts be damned.

    You can't even use Usyk's one-fight-a-year against him, because most of the guys looking to replace him don't fight more than that, either. And they aren't fighting better opponents.

    That's where we're at.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2026
    Dubblechin, Jul 7, 2026
    Dubblechin, Jul 7, 2026
    #48
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  4. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    You are getting all mixed up.
    I'm not disputing Usyks excellent resume or run of opponents. Far from. Make that clear.
    I'm saying
    How long should a fighter be declared lineal if not facing top 10 opponents or agreeing to face top opponents, for how long?

    You can't just be lineal by not being retired if someone (get it clear. I am not necessarily saying Usyk. Just someone) is not looking to face the top opponents
    It's the same as being a champion who gets stripped

    Let's go imaginary and say when people claimed Fury was still lineal by not fighting for around two and a half years, he came back and fought Seferi. Let's say due to a freak accident Seferi won
    So now Seferi is the lineal champion, isnt world rated, not in anyone's top 10, fights 4 journeyman and loses to the fourth one. The unranked journeyman #4 loses a four rounder to another unranked journeyman etc
    Do you think many would call that the HW lineal title fights whilst top rated HWs are battling it out?

    With Spinks, I may be wrong but dont think it was too long prior that he faced Tangstad at that time and as I recall the fight with Tyson was agreed less than a year after that fight, even if it didn't take place for over a year.
    It doesn't strictly have to be a year, but how long should a fighter be declared lineal if not facing top 10 opponents or agreeing to face top opponents, for how long?
     
    bailey, Jul 7, 2026
    bailey, Jul 7, 2026
    #49
  5. LoveThis

    LoveThis Sweet Science Full Member

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    Well as much as the choice of knyba speaks against the perspective I was building as an alternative to yours, the makhmudov-sanchez-zhang triple speaks against yours.

    Btw I am not saying I am sold on that perspective either, just that the way you are promoting yours seems a bit too sure of things and not take those aspects into account.

    And it also is a perspective that is very easy to take in order to downgrade fighters from unpopular countries. I mean I was very much wondering where hrgovic's breakout fight was until he finally got a few good fights and you and I can both guess why he didn't get the fights he should have gotten. I think it is very much obvious that while some fighters had a narrative built around them, in general it is very seldomly the case.

    You say his team must have had an interest in pushing him as far as a fight against chisora and they wouldn't have lost interest all of a sudden. Might be, I don't know the ins and outs of that part of his career, but it very well might be that they just needed an undefeated fighter and called them and they were up for it. Realistically noone expected kabayel to win that. So it's not necessary for kabayel's team to have invested that much into that Fight but it is very realistic that chisora's side or the event side made all the calls, a call that kabayel did not get anymore afterwards.

    Opetaia is obviously a way more obvious case but I could throw him in there, too. How much would they have had to pay to fight zurdo or cbs? Way more than they could have made back, probably. Who does that? What kind of weight is that to put on the side of the ones that are already messed with by the system?

    We'll see, maybe kabayel wants easy touches, but I assume like anyone he will take the fights that make sense. Otherwise he would have probably stayed away from zhang,sanchez and makhmudov. Say what you will about those three in hindsight
     
    LoveThis, Jul 7, 2026
    LoveThis, Jul 7, 2026
    #50
  6. rawjones

    rawjones War ioka Full Member

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    Kabayel should fight gassiev
     
    rawjones, Jul 7, 2026
    rawjones, Jul 7, 2026
    #51
  7. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    There are several historical precedents: Corbett, Dempsey, and Ali all went longer than Fury without defending the lineal crown. Several boxers have also held lineal honors without holding an ABC trinket: Michael Spinks, Foreman, and Briggs.

    With Lennox, however, there is no precedent of a retired lineal champion coming back more than 20 years after retiring.

    I'm not sure what the exact answer is, but historical precedent strongly indicates it's more than 3 years.
     
    Rumsfeld, Jul 7, 2026
    Rumsfeld, Jul 7, 2026
    #52
    Bigplatts, bailey and catchwtboxing like this.
  8. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    How long should a fighter be declared lineal if not facing top 10 opponents or agreeing to face top opponents, for how long?

    You can't just be lineal by not being retired if someone (get it clear. I am not necessarily saying Usyk. Just someone) is not looking to face the top opponents
    It's the same as being a champion who gets stripped

    Let's go imaginary and say when people claimed Fury was still lineal by not fighting for around two and a half years, he came back and fought Seferi. Let's say due to a freak accident Seferi won
    So now Seferi is the lineal champion, isnt world rated, not in anyone's top 10, fights 4 journeyman and loses to the fourth one. The unranked journeyman #4 loses a four rounder to another unranked journeyman etc
    Do you think many would call that the HW lineal title fights whilst top rated HWs are battling it out?


    Edit
    When Fury retired I think after the Whyte fight, I think the Ring started a new lineage with Usyk when he beat possibly Dubois
    I think. I will have to double check that
     
    bailey, Jul 7, 2026
    bailey, Jul 7, 2026
    #53
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