Battle of the jab: Sonny Liston V Vitali Klitschko

Ali and Holmes were miles, eons and in fact universes above Liston with their jab.

 

Emanuel Steward claimed Wlad had one of the best jabs ever, second only to Larry Holmes.

 

a younger, fitter Lewis got outjabbed by ray mercer and frank bruno. Even old Holyfield was having some success with the jab against Lewis.

 

Lewis wasn’t even with Steward against Bruno and had like 1-2 years under him against Mercer where the ring size limited his long-range work.

“Old Holyfield” beat the juice out of Tyson and Moorer 1-2 years before he fought Lewis the first time and got absolutely dominated in the jab battle. He did a lot of adjustments and preparation for the rematch and still got outjabbed and outboxed.

Now name one proper, skilled HW Liston outjabbed. Just one.

 

That’s an assertion, not an argument.

 

Wladimir certainly has one of the greatest jabs, I consider his better than Lewis’s, but second only to Holmes? Maybe Emanuel was being a little biased. It’s normal, he was his trainer after all.

 

He didn’t stop struggling with the Jab post steward.

you don’t need a big ring size to use your jab. He threw it more than mercer did, ray was simply more accurate.

Yes, Tyson who was coming off a 4 year layoff, three of which were in prison, and had only fought weak opposition in his comeback prior to facing Holyfield. Moore, prior to fighting Evander, beat Vaughn Bean via split decision in a performance that was so dreadful that his trainer teddy atlas left him. The fact Holyfield himself struggled against Bean then went on to go 1-1-1 against John Ruiz after his fights with Lewis should tell you he was very much old. He was still able to land his jab with some consistency even if Lewis threw his more often.

 

He wasn't saying this about Lennox, even tho he considered him the best HW he ever trained.

 

He always had bad jab defense but he got miles better at using his length and imposing his jab after Steward. Nobody's arguing that he was the jabber of all time, just that he was better than Liston.

You do when you are a 6'5 dude with a 84 inch reach, being cramped in a smaller place would favour the shorter fighter in a jab battle, same way shorter arms work better when you are trading combos on the inside. And again, this was Lewis' 4th fight with Steward.

He had 4 boxing matches before facing Holyfield and he was a 6-1 favorite.

He beat Bruce Seldon for a title and beat Frank Bruno faster and easier than he did before prison.

Vaugh Bean was a good spoiler, hardly anyone looked good in a win against him.

Nearly beating Tyson to death says otherwise, and I'd say holds more relevance than what happened AFTER the Lewis matches.

Not really, even if you just look at the jab stats like people here like to do, Lewis landed 187 jabs to Holyfield's 52 with a 51% accuracy to 30%. That's genuinely laughable, and that version of Holyfield was a better boxer with a better jab than anyone Liston outjabbed and beat.

 

Vitali kept his left too low. He'd be wide upon for counters. Liston wins the jab-a-thon.

 

I wasn't making an argument for or against Vitali or Lewis, I was saying you looked silly ignoring Dino's argument about connect percentage saying "stop reading stats" because it didn't suit your argument about who won the battle of the jabs. You didn't address what he said at all. It's odd that you made a bold claim Vitali won the battle of the jabs and then failed to directly address Dino's stat that Lewis had a higher connect %.

That's really all that matters, unless you don't mind taking an L on this discussion with Dino. Carry on. You're replying a lot for someone who supposedly doesn't care.

 

Thanks for your opinion but no one cares, cheers.

But stop lying, I already showed why I thought the connect percentage argument didn’t work, which you tried to deflect by lying about Lewis landing more.

 

Actually, multiple people cared and liked my posts. You being embarrassed at being called out and trying to downplay it doesn't change reality.

I didn't lie, you lied to yourself and now you're trying to throw me under the bus instead of making a good rebuttal to Dino. You made some decent counter points but you did not and still have not explained away the connect percentage argument. But you got it lil bro.

 

There's genuinely nothing a stranger from a random boxing forum can do to embarrass me, you literally don't exist if I don't enter to this site. So again, thanks for your opinion but no one cares.

You saying Lewis landed more jabs is up there for anyone to see, and its a lie. Doesn't get any simpler than that. I explained how feints and volume affected punch stats, and you being slow isn't an excuse either because this is the 3rd time I'm explaining this. And lastly, I'm not making a rebuttal to Dino because I'm already the one who gave the last argument, he is the one that needs to respond if he wants to keep this going, maybe go coach him on that instead of trying to give criticism nobody gives a damn about on arguments you can't even comprehend in the first place.

 

You do not know what the word "literally" means. I literally exist, go to work, eat, etc whether you log into this site or not. You are talking like a child who thinks his teacher simply sits in their room all night and doesn't have a house.

I misspoke saying he landed more, I meant that according to Dino his connect percentage was higher. See? That wasn't some gargantuan taks admitting a mistake. You are clearly one of those guys who grew up under the assumption that admitting mistakes is a cardinal sin and will lead to one's balls falling off...which tracks, because you definitely come across as an weird juvenile at this point being abrasive over nothing unable to take any constructive criticism for a poorly formed rebuttal.

You can explain it 4 times if you'd like, it doesn't change the fact your argument was flawed because usually when someone says X boxer won the jab battle against Y boxer, the connect percentage usually reflects that. You do not need to explain to me the obvious reality of how feints and volume work lol. No one in this thread is failing to comprehend or getting confused about your argument, it's not rocket science.