Joe Frazier All-Time HW Rating

Marciano, Johnson, Dempsey, Lewis, Tyson, Wlad and Usyk should all be above him. He has the least number of wins and least # of title defenses (besides Foreman).

 

Top 10

 

Agreed

 

You must not be including his title defenses before the FOTC.

 

Form me Frazier has to be top 10, probably #9 or #10 all time due to his accomplishments.

 

I don't see much argument for the top 10 given he failed to dominate his own era

 

Marciano is undefeated though. That's a big advantage relative to a guy with 4 losses 3 by stoppage

 

Wonder how many losses Marciano would've had if he fought
Ali (03) times, Foreman twice?
It's the caliber of Frazier's competition for the losses.
Afterall, Ali is generally seen as the G.O.A.T at the
heavyweight division, Foreman is usually seen no
lower than top 5-6 in the divisions history.
How many of Marciano's opponents crack the top
twenty in the divisions history other than the clearly
DEMINISHED and past prime version of Joe Louis
he fought.......

 

Foreman was huge by the standards of his day. There's no reason to think he has the same success when he's the smaller guy and the division is full of huge athletic hard hitting giants.

Ezzard Charles should rate very highly based on what he accomplished in his day

 

What did I miss?
When did size come into play?
You originally were comparing Marciano's record against Frazier's.
Or 49-0 in comparison to Frazier's 37- 4 .
Now where did Foreman's size come into the picture from.
My point is its the caliber of Frazier's competition is primarily the reason for those losses.
And if one is honest with self, Marciano's competition simply does not compare. Especially at the time he faced them because # 1 all the men considered great boxers were past their primes, # 2 Moore and Charles were natural Lt.heavys. Walcott was mainly seen as a journeyman during most of career, and gets most of his shine from his battles with Marciano.
Does the fact of him giving Marciano tough fights make him ATG?
Charles is considered one of the greatest boxers in history.
But not at heavyweight, and especially not by the time he fought Marciano when he was clearly on the downside of a long career.
Quarry, Ellis, Douglas Sr., Bonavena, Chuvalo all Frazier victims are generally well regarded.
Very few of Marciano's victims can compare to even that group.

 

Considering the timeframe when Frazier fought is named by many as the HW Golden Era, puts things in a different perspectiva.

Hard to dominate when you are regularly crossing paths with the likes of Ali and Big George, for starters.

 

I prefer a very simple argument: what happens if we put Frazier's on JJ Walcott's shoes?

My guess is Fraziers improves dramatically Walcott's record, cleaning up the division and very probably beats Marciano.

 

I don't see much issue with Marcianos competition beyond being undersized relative to fighters from later eras. But the guys Frazier beat are also very undersized nowadays.

Walcott would beat plenty on that list