Dempsey Koing Joe Louis?

Louis ducking black contenders is a myth that doesn't stand up under scrutiny.

There were 3 x top 2 ranked black contenders during Louis's reign, all at the very tail end of that reign when Louis was past prime. They were JJW, Elmer Ray and Jimmy Bivins. Louis defended against JJW, gave him a deserved rematch and then retired. He also beat Bivins during his comeback. Much earlier in his reign, he defended against the LHW champion, John Henry Lewis.

Essentially, within a year or so of a black HW being a top 2 contender for the first time during Louis's reign, all of Louis's remaining world title contests were against black HWs.

Dempsey, on the other hand, never defended against a black contender, despite the outstanding contender during his reign being black.

 

It's certainly possible Dempsey could catch Louis with
something early and seriously hurt him.
Afterall , Louis was hurt by lesser men, including
Billy Conn, and he had Louis reeling around the
ring like a drunk sailor in rough sea's .
Conn only weighed 169 pounds when they initially
fought in 1941. Yet he badly hurt Louis, there's
no reason to think Dempsey couldn't do the
same.
But honestly, Dempsey wouldn't have much
of a chance against prime Louis.
His style was tailor made for him. His relentless
aggression would mean he'd walk into something
and that something would end the fight early for
Louis with a victory.
After a rough start, Louis stops Dempsey with in seven rounds brutally.....

 

The idea Louis ducked black opposition is utter BS at the highest level. It wasn’t until the war years where Louis title was frozen for four years did a few black heavyweights entered the top five and stayed a while. However fast forward to wars end and only Walcott remained and Louis, after taking care of both Conn and Mauriello, fought Walcott twice. A man’s skin color does not decide their greatness as a fighter.

Many equate yesterday to today in terms of the high % of minorities within the heavyweight top ten. It was a very different story back in the 20’s, 30’s.

 

Dempsey was very much akin to Louis in terms of short arm combination punching. Certainly Dempseys inside game was superior in this regard.

 

Certainly possible that Dempsey could catch Louis with the left and put him out but not so likely imo.

Joe obviously should and would be duly and acutely wary of Dempsey during the opening 4 rounds or so.

Of course Dempsey would still be dangerous thereafter but somewhat less so, imo.

After a potentially rough ride during the first 4 rounds, I can envisage Louis’ notably superior technical game and uniformly applied and maintained power coming to the fore with The Bomber stopping Jack around the 10th round.

 

Hit ya with the ol’ McGlothlin Gambit

 

One of three men to beat Louis, and his only loss that had titles on the line, was to Ezzard Charles, who was in fact black

 

Louis had no problem fighting black challengers,but his promoter Mike Jacobs didn't think two blacks would draw. Louis had to dig his heels in to give John Henry Lewis a title shot .

 

Roscoe Toles was ranked in 37,38, 38,and 41.
Lem Franklin was ranked in 40 and 41.
Turkey Thompson was ranked in 41 and 47.
Lee Q Murray was ranked in 46 and 47.
Elmer Ray was ranked in 45,46,and 47.
I haven't included the years when Louis' title was frozen.
Louis could reasonably have fought any of these men,but there was no compelling case for him to fight any of them.

 

Agreed Mac (as specified in my post, the 3 x black contenders I listed were the only to be ranked as a top 2 contender during Louis's reign). The only one of these to be ranked as a top 2 contender was Ray. Whilst I think Elmer deserved a shot, Louis didn't fight in the final year of WWII2, 45, granted Conn a rematch in 46 and gave another deserving black contender, JJW, a shot in 47 and then a deserved rematch.

 

Was being in the top 5 a qualification for a title chance?
If so how did
Thomas
Roper
Musto
Paychek
Dorazio
Get title chances? Not only were they not in the top 5, they weren't in the top ten!

 

I take your point Greg ,but Louis defended against men who were not only not in the top 5 they weren't even ranked in the top ten! My problem isn't with Louis so much as the reasons given for why he didn't defend against more of the black challengers.

 

If someone stated the best black contenders Louis didn't defend against were better than the worst white fighters he defended against, I wouldn't object to that claim.

The post I objected to stated that Louis ducked black conteders and that it detracted from his legacy. The clear implication being he didn’t defend against his best contenders because they were black. That's what I objected to, because his best contenders weren't black, not until towards the very end of his reign. When I assess the quality of title reigns, part of the criteria I use is whether the champion defended against their highest ranked contenders, irrespective of race. Louis stacks up very well historically by this measure, only equalled by Ali. In short, I see no detraction from legacy. Louis has no Harry Wills, or even close to one.

To put it in perspective, defending against Tami Mauriello was the only instance of defending against a white challenger instead of a clearly more deserving and top 2 ranked black contender, namely Elmer Ray. Once in 25 defences, and even then, his next two defences were against a black man.

I suspect Louis fought whoever his management arranged him to fight and doubt he ever refused to fight an opponent put to him. I doubt even his management ducked opponents for fear of Louis losing, but rather selected challengers on the basis of which would sell best, with some stay busy defences mixed in.

 

It's fortunate for Louis's legacy that Joe Baksi slipped up against Olle Tandberg in July 47. Otherwise, it's likely Baksi would have got the title shot that year and - assuming everything went to plan - Louis would have retired shortly afterwards without ever facing Walcott.

https://ibb.co/pNLXQtj

 

Jack Sharkey was featherfisted? Nah.