The most unjust victory ever given to Ali

No way. Ali clearly won the second fight.

 

Ali vs Norton 3


Gotta disagree. The fight wasn't close at all. Norton clearly won.


What's even worse is how Ali somehow won a scorecard vs Leon Spinks the 1st time

 

Had it 8-6-1 for Ernie.

 

No. Norton should have won the trilogy, the first and third fight; and thus come out ahead of Ali in their H2H encounters.
In other words, it doesn't seem to me that Ali won the trilogy.

 

Yes. Some seem to see it like:

"Ali got the benefit of a doubt in every close fight due to his popularity. Also, Ali should have lost every close fight he was in."

 

The third fight was a toss up and a lot of boxing pundits had the fight scored for Ali.

 

The majority of ringside reporters had it for Ali. So the notion of a robbery came later.

 

I had it draw

Ali didn't clearly win anything

 

Ring Magazine also had it for Ali.

 

He clearly lost the second fight.

 

I’ve spoken my piece about Young. He should have been disqualified or ruled knocked out before it got to the cards.

As far as Ali v. Norton, Norton clearly won the first fight, Ali clearly won the second fight, the third fight is one of those that forevermore will be “for those who believe, no explanation is needed; for those who don’t believe, no explanation will do.”

Anyone who believes the result of that fight was clear is blowing smoke. In real time, I had no issue with the decision. In reviewing it a jillion times in the last 50 years, I still had no issue with the decision while at the same time I wouldn’t have considered it an injustice for Norton to get the nod. Again, my .02 is the fight was that close and the result so unclear, because neither one of them came close to hurting the other.

The thing is, it was there for the taking for Norton if he’d at least contested the 15th round, but he listened to Bill Slayton who told him he had it in the bag and just to coast. Which reinforces that Norton … who I was a huge fan of and was pulling for in this fight, but as I have noted here, he disappointed me so many times I think less highly of him now … had a million dollar body and a 10-cent brain.

I believe I remember seeing a quote from Arthur Mercante along the lines of, when he heard Slayton say that, he thought, “Au contraire, sport.”

And the whole thing about “Ali circus” and “unjust result” is IMO another sign of people since Miami Beach in 1964 resisting the notion that the man was the GOAT. But him being the GOAT doesn’t change the fact that for whatever reason, Ken Norton, an inferior fighter to him in every conceivable way, was kryptonite for him. I just chalk it up to God never saying we’d understand all the mysteries of life.

 

Even Ali thought he lost Norton III

Didn’t like how Ali got away with so much holding in the Frazier rematch

 

Firstly, as I’ve said, Liston was not availed of any time frame to arise within - he received no count.

Therefore there is no case for claiming that Liston did not get up “in time”.

As to the rollover, I did previously address that also - Liston allowed himself to fall again as Ali was fast approaching him. The proof in the pudding is the fact that by the time Liston touched down again, Ali was already right by Liston, buzzing by very close yet again.

As a side examination, when actually availed of a count, a fighter is entitled to use the better part of that count to maximise his respite.

We’ve even seen some fighters, after being KD’d, jump back up too fast but then quickly collect themselves to go back down and take a knee to extend their rest.

In Liston’s case it is a reasonable argument that Sonny allowed himself to fall back down again lest he be hit on the way back up by the ever present Ali.

I think I’ve more than adequately defended Liston’s position but it is notable that all the accent has been on what Liston allegedly did wrong and what his presumed motives were but the bottom line is that Sonny did not, in fact, break any rules.

Meanwhile, Ali, Fleischer and Walcott aren’t being put under the same analytical microscope whatsoever. Why is that?

Anyway, let’s reverse the accent of the examinations.

Did Ali and Walcott break any rules? Yes they did.

Has anyone actually directly acknowledged or, if so inclined, disagreed with that fact?

Curiously, it’s a fact that appears to have been ignored in order to inappropriately isolate Liston for sole blame.

Ali never properly retreated after the KD and Walcott called the fight without applying a count, basing that call on Liston being down for longer than 10 seconds.

How many times do we read that a count isn’t an actual 10 seconds, rather, it is as long or short as how a ref chooses to toll it? Again, Walcott didn’t even afford Liston a count so there is no “in time” in play.

Also, a count can be rightfully suspended or not even begun when a fighter refuses to retreat to a neutral corner - see Tunney vs Demspey. Such applied rulings would’ve been apt in the case of Ali-Liston 2 had the ref chosen to exercise same under his so called “discretionary powers”.

Ali indicated he wanted Liston to get back up - why then did Ali doing everything, including a blatant breaking of the rules, to disrupt that possibility?

When Liston fell back down, 8 secs had elapsed since the KD - yet there was Ali, already launching into a victory dance - why so IF Ali really wanted Liston to get back up and for the fight to continue?

Ali’s chaotic behaviour and literal breaching of the rules was THE reason that Liston wasn’t duly afforded a count by the referee - clearly that wasn’t Liston’s fault.

As a common denominator, Ali was guilty of the same infractions when he KD’d Bonavena - Ali absolutely refused to retreat and even went so far as to physically interfere with the ref who was trying to hold him off.

Sorry to post at length but I thought I’d flesh it out more and cover all bases in reply to your enquiry though it has required repetition of a number of points that I have already made.

Can’t really add too much more to these particular bones of contention.

 

I'd temper that by saying pre exile Ali would beat Norton on points every time out.

 

Never understood why Walcott listened to time keeper. He’s the one giving the count and one would assume Liston was listening to the count. He got up and continued fighting it should have been allowed to continue. I’m pretty sure Walcott knew after he messed it up there have been quite a few threads on this.