the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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I don't know if anyone has checked out this fight. It is the bout between Florentino Fernandez and Rory Calhoun. I saw it some time ago and it's a good one.

 

Wilfredo Gomez v Albert Davila

No sense running a card here. Except for the 7th round which I scored even, I gave the rest to Gomez, who dropped and then stopped Davila in the 9th for a 80-73 score through 8 completed rounds (actual scores: 80-72, 80-72 and 79-73 all for Gomez). Despite my score, Davila was in every round with his sharp combinations, but he simply lacked the punch of Gomez. I will mention, throughout his career, Gomez acted like a real stroke with some of his dirty fighting, which was unnecessary with his level of talent. And it was no different here with the way he tried to get at Davila after the ref stopped the fight and when he decked him. I will mention one more thing. I recall Gomez' fight with Eddie Ndukwu at the weigh-in. The contracted weight meant nothing in Puerto Rico. When Gomez got on the scale everyone crowded around the scale so no one with a camera could see - the sound of the balance bar audibly striking the frame - and Gomez jumps off, the PR official announces the contracted weight and Gomez grabs a cup of something and visually downs it, thus preventing him from having to get on the scales again. Someone from ABC grabbed the cup and stated that it was a completely dry cup with no residue in it. Fast forward many years later and I met Davila. He told me verbatim the same story (except for examining the cup) that happened to him in PR. He said he had no idea what Gomez actually weighed. Other than all this, an interesting fight.

 

Lupe Pintor vs Alberto Davila II

9:10 Davila
9:10 Davila
9:10 Davila
10:9 Pintor
9:10 Davila
10:10 Draw
9:10 Davila
10:9 Pintor
10:9 Pintor
10:9 Pintor
9:10 Davila
10:9 Pintor
10:9 Pintor
10:9 Pintor
10:9 Pintor

144:142 Pintor

Davila was boxing beautifully for the first half of the fight until Pintor took over. I think Davila should've move and box instead of getting inside and trade with Pintor in some middle to late rounds. Pintor won my respect in this fight. He always find a way to win.

 

My score. We're on the same page.

Lupe Pintor v Albert Davila II (bantamweight title)

Round 1: 10-9 Pintor
Round 2: 10-9 Davila
Round 3: 10-9 Davila
Round 4: 10-9 Pintor
Round 5: 10-9 Davila
Round 6: 10-10 Even
Round 7: 10-9 Davila
Round 8: 10-9 Pintor
Round 9: 10-9 Pintor
Round 10: 10-9 Pintor
Round 11: 10-9 Davila
Round 12: 10-9 Pintor
Round 13: 10-9 Pintor
Round 14: 10-9 Pintor
Round 15: 10-9 Pintor

Total: 145-141 Pintor (actual scores: 146-142, 143-142 and a 143-143 Even for a majority decision for Pintor)

I've been meaning to have a look-see at this fight as I haven't seen it since I saw it live. Man, what took me so long? I loved this fight. Such sharp, clean punches throughout the night. It didn't bode well for Davila down the stretch as that's Pintor's wheel-house. He just had that ability to accelerate down the stretch. Again, brilliant fight.

 

Jimmy Beecham v Hector Constance II

Always looking for a good fight but this wasn't it. I had never seen Jimmy Beecham fight before and from his record I got the feeling he was more boxer due to his low number of KOs (12 out of 75 fights). Well nothing is further from the truth in that matter. Beecham was a pressure fighter, a grinder, if you will. He reminded me of a Charley Riley or a Frankie Warren. The kind of pressure fighter that just lacked that KO punch. Constance, on the other hand was a sort of flailing arm puncher who looked like he was going to do something in rounds 3, 4 and 10, but invariably ended up on the inside or against the ropes with Beecham pounding him. Beecham was King on the inside so I don't know what Constance was being told by his corner or maybe he just simply couldn't keep his opponent off of him (I lean towards the latter). Anyways, I gave every round to Beecham for a 100-90 score (actual scores: 98-92, 99-92 and 99-93 all for Beecham).

I should mention the era here was mid-50s. Although televised, the fight crowd back then expected a fight every time. Jack Drees was the ring announcer and the ringside commentator. He spoke sparingly. In one of the rounds I don't think he said a thing until just about the end of the round while Beecham was pounding the mid-section of Constance throughout. There were a number of hecklers in the audience that demanded value for money and I had to laugh as they were close to Drees' microphone when they were yelling "Hey, Hector, when are you going to take your dive?" And "Hey, Constance, you stink!" I still found enough in the fight to enjoy for historical reasons but would still like to see some more of Beecham against a live opponent. Glancing at his record, he lost very close decisions to Kid Gavilan, Spider Webb and Henry Hank. So he was right there amongst the top dogs of his era.

 

Michael Spinks W12 Eddie Davis

This is the fight I usually bring up whenever anyone mentions hard-to-score bouts. I watched it on CBS when it aired live, and thought it was a dubious call then, and tried to score it in December of 2012 and was met with similar frustration. I couldn't score that thing to save my life.

I think I know what it was; in 1984 I was a neophyte fan who was as yet relatively unlearned in the ways of scoring boxing matches. In December of 2012 I was taking leave from work to welcome my first daughter. I would wake up at 4:00 in the morning and take the baby downstairs to give the wife some relief from the feedings every two hours, and give the young one a bottle. While she ate and dozed, I would watch boxing in my foggy, sleep-deprived state. This was one of the bouts I attempted to score.

Watching it now, it doesn't feel as difficult. Davis made a very good effort of it, starting very well with outstanding head and upper-body movement while applying intense pressure and throwing enough to keep Michael honest and backtracking. Spinks continually missed early on, and in those instances where he did connect, Davis took the shots really well. He showed a hell of a chin.

Problem was, Davis was either in one mode or the other; he seemed overly concentrated on moving forward while slipping and ducking punches but while in that mode, he forgot to punch enough. Spinks for his part was smart enough to sense the need to take advantage of these punchless spells, and work hard, really turning on his punches and just generally outworking Davis. He was consistently being backed up and was almost never the aggressor, but he showed remarkable poise and ring IQ in recognizing what his position was and what he had to work with. It wasn't ideal for MIchael, but he made it work. Such a heady fighter.

1. Davis
2. Even
3. Spinks
4. Davis
5. Spinks
6. Spinks
7. Spinks
8. Spinks
9. Davis
10. Spinks
11. Spinks
12. Spinks

117-112 Spinks. Nowhere near as close as I originally thought. Davis just compartmentalized his offense and defense to a detrimental extent, and Spinks saw that and took advantage.

 

Freddie Pendleton v Rafael Ruelas (lightweight title)

Round 1: 10-7 Pendleton (scores 2 knockdowns)
Round 2: 10-9 Ruelas
Round 3: 10-9 Ruelas
Round 4: 10-9 Ruelas
Round 5: 10-10 Even
Round 6: 10-9 Ruelas
Round 7: 10-9 Ruelas
Round 8: 10-9 Ruelas
Round 9: 10-9 Pendleton
Round 10: 10-9 Ruelas
Round 11: 10-9 Ruelas
Round 12: 10-9 Ruelas

Total: 116-111 Ruelas (actuals scores: 116-111, 115-110 and 114-112 all for Ruelas)

Ruelas did well to come back from the 2 first round knockdowns and take over the fight. There wasn't much between these two but Ruelas was simply more active, throwing more punches. The 9th round, which I thought Ruelas was having a good round, suddenly went into a frenzy when Freddie dropped Rafael. However, the ref ruled it a slip. I thought it was legit enough to give Freddie the round, albeit a 10-9. A decent fight.

Gotta admit, guys, I've been struggling to find some good ones. But I'll keep hunting.

 

Checked out a couple of Jesse James Leija fights today. I was always a fan of JJL ever since I saw him against Pee Wee Parker. Anyways, here we go...

Jesse James Leija v Troy Dorsey

Round 1: 10-9 JJL
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-9 JJL
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-9 JJL (Dorsey goes down as the bell rings - don't believe it is counted as it was at the bell)
The fight is stopped between rounds 5 and 6 due to both of Dorsey's eyes bleeding profusely.

Total through 5 completed rounds: 50-47 JJL (actual scores not known)

Man, when I saw this first round I thought it was a contender for round of the year. But to tell you the truth, they all were. They went at it hard but Dorsey just never had the kind of punch that would worry the top dogs. He made it as far as he did with a great work-rate and a big heart. Jesse's punches were so crisp that one could see where this was going with the cut-prone Dorsey. Again, I did not count that 5th round-at the bell knockdown because it was at the bell and the ref made no move to administer a count. But great fight.

Arturo Gatti v Jesse James Leija (jr. welterweight title)

Won't run a card here because the now 38-year-old Jesse tried but was outgunned by a well-trained and well-taught fighter in Arturo Gatti from his trainer Buddy McGirt. Gatti stuck to the plan of sticking with the jab - a hard jab to boot - and not engaging with the shorter JJL who was trying to get close to cause damage but was simply on the end of that hard jab. Gatti, fighting a masterpiece, dropped Jesse twice in the 5th and could not beat the count. I had it 40-36 for Gatti through 4 completed rounds.

 

Matthew Saad Muhammad W15 John Conteh

I'd seen this years ago but didn't score it. I got the impression then that it was close, and I was right.

Conteh is so slick and instinctive on defense, he eludes by sliding, slipping, ducking, all while holding an exaggeratedly wide stance, it's really interesting to watch. Saad was never a speed demon, but he looked ponderous compared to the smooth challenger.

Saad for his part is making his first title defense since winning the title by clubbing Marvin Johnson to the canvas in their epic second battle. While a more nuanced and scientific fight this time, it was still a war of attrition. It seemed Saad could be in no other type of fight.

I think the intense pressure and strength of Saad gradually tired Conteh out juuuuust enough to where the laser focus the Englishman had on defense was dulled to a slight degree, allowing more punches to land on him, and they took a gradual toll. THat, and perhaps the coagulant Saad's corner used on his terrible cut over the left eye. Conteh was blinking terribly in the later rounds, and his manager Georgr Francis threw a coniption over it to the referee. He may have had a point. Not sure if we ever found out exactly what Saad's corner was using to close the cut.

At any rate, I had Saad pulling it out, though barely. The knockdowns were huge for him on points, otherwise I'd have had it a draw.

1. Saad
2. Conteh
3. Conteh
4. Saad
5. Saad
6. Conteh
7. Conteh
8. Conteh
9. Conteh
10. Saad
11. Saad
12. Conteh
13. Even
14. Saad (10-7, 2 knockdowns)
15. Saad

143-141 Saad Muhammad

 

Think I’ve scored this here but cannot find it. I remember thinking Saad pulled it out down the stretch, same as your score reflects.

The coagulant situation was this: New Jersey allowed adrenaline 1:1000 only; Saad’s corner used adrenaline 1:1000 mixed with green tea leave bits (to thicken it and create cohesion, I presume … it’s really a smart combo to my thinking but outside the rules). The cornermen were fined and suspended — nothing in the rules says the fighter who benefits from ‘illegal’ cut medicine is to be DQ’d. And the WBC declared it a no contest, ordering a rematch.

(In the rematch, btw, Conteh fought like a man doing his walk to the electric chair … looked like he felt doomed from the start and was in no mood to take a beating or go to the wall to try to win. It’s one of the worst efforts I’ve seen in a high-stakes fight involving two top guys. Spare yourself watching it.)

As for the cut medicine thing, it’s hard to have sympathy when Saad’s eye problem began from swelling from a trademark head butt by Conteh in the fourth or fifth round, iirc. Which is also illegal. John was misnamed — he should have been Billy ‘Goat’ Conteh. So he gained an advantage by his own misdeeds (whether you think him reckless, negligent or purposeful in his consistent egregious use of his head) and Saad’s corner also cut corners.

 

Jimmy Young vs Ossie Ocasio I

Round 1: 10:9 Young
Round 2: 10:9 Ocasio
Round 3: 10:9 Ocasio
Round 4: 10:9 Ocasio
Round 5: 10:9 Ocasio
Round 6: 10:9 Young
Round 7: 10:9 Ocasio
Round 8: 10:9 Young
Round 9: 10:9 Young
Round 10: 10:9 Young

Total: 95-95 DRAW

Pretty good fight. Young seemed sluggish in the beginning coming in at his heaviest, but clearly won the second half of the fight. I loved his body work there. Ocasio however had a way better showing in the first half. Some rounds were very close, so I think a draw is a perfect verdict here.

 

Ossie Ocasio vs Jimmy Young II

Round 1: 10:9 Young
Round 2: 10:9 Ocasio
Round 3: 10:9 Ocasio
Round 4: 10:9 Young
Round 5: 10:9 Young
Round 6: 10:9 Young
Round 7: 10:9 Ocasio
Round 8: 10:9 Ocasio
Round 9: 10:9 Ocasio
Round 10: 10:9 Ocasio

Total: 96 - 94 OCASIO

Another close fight. This time however Ocasio managed to take the late rounds after Young was looking like he was about to take over in the middle of the fight. Young looked better conditioned this time, but on the other hand Ossie was hitting him with bigger shots than in the first bout. Young was usually edging rounds, while Ocasio was sometimes beating Young up in the rounds he won. Overall, good effort by Ocasio stopping Young's great run in the mid to late 70's. Shows the level of Larry Holmes too, who completely dominated and beat Ossie up in his next fight.

 

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while this is not boxing,i'm still bumping this up right here cuz why not? )

Zan Htoo in blue trunks
Tway Ma Shaung in white trunks

this is traditional Burmese boxing/Lethwei,it has no scoring system and only ends by KO/TKO, it's rules are similar to Muay Thai,but you can headbutt,and when you get ko'ed you can get a single revive before fighting again,the gloves are replaced with tight wrappings.

imo,when it comes to old/bare knuckle boxing,i think this sport is the closest we've got to it's imagery,plus the kickboxing stuffs of course.

epic fight and great heart from both guys,i recommend looking more to Tway Ma Shaung, he's a crafty body puncher,i think the best volume body puncher i've seen outside of boxing (at this moment) is Tway Ma Shaung.

i hope the admins won't banish me for this small rule breaking (????,i guess?)

 

Carlos Monzon v Rodrigo Valdes II (Middleweight title)

Round 1: 10-9 Monzon
Round 2: 10-8 Valdes (scores a knockdown)
Round 3: 10-9 Monzon
Round 4: 10-9 Valdes
Round 5: 10-9 Monzon
Round 6: 10-9 Monzon
Round 7: 10-9 Valdes
Round 8: 10-9 Valdes
Round 9: 10-10 Even
Round 10: 10-9 Monzon
Round 11: 10-9 Monzon
Round 12: 10-9 Valdes
Round 13: 10-9 Valdes
Round 14: 10-9 Monzon
Round 15: 10-9 Monzon

Total: 143-142 Monzon (actual scores: 145-143, 144-141 and 147-144 all for Monzon)

Y'know, I watched this fight back in the day and remember it being close but damn, I had it right down to the wire with Monzon pulling it out in the last 2 rounds. So close with Valdes fighting such a good fight, staying in close to negate Monzon's straight jabs and right hands, which were deadly. Monzon was so much physically bigger than Valdes - height and reach-wise (I recall when Valdes was a world-rated jr. welterweight) that the Valdes game plan proved to be brilliant but just fell short. Damn good fight.

 

Scar, we were pretty well aligned on our scoring of this one, I just hedged on a couple of rounds where you picked a winner.

I remember finding it a difficult one to score but seeing your card reassures me that I wasn’t too far off - and you’re right, it was very close.

Carlos Monzon v Rodrigo Valdez 2

Tough fight to score and tough to watch at times too. The standout moments were the 2nd round knockdown and the 10th where Monzon really worked Valdez over expertly. The three even rounds I scored tells the story of the fight - it was close.

1 10-9
2 8-10 (Flash knockdown but could conceivably be a 10-9. Valdez did well enough to take a share of the round without the KD)
3 10-9
4 9-10 (good, aggressive body work edges the round to Valdez)
5 10-10
6 10-9
7 10-9
8 9-10
9 10-10 (tricky to score)
10 10-9 (superb round from Monzon as he wrestles control from Valdez again at a key point in the fight)
11 10-9 (close)
12 9-10 (close, scrappy round that Valdez just about took)
13 9-10 (another scrappy round but Valdez landed the cleaner shots)
14 10-9 (close)
15 10-10 (very scrappy)

Monzon 144-143 Valdez

Monzon wins 7-5 in rounds with 3 even