Anthony Joshuas career is a disappointment

Why does psych meds, KO'd by Chisora in sparring, fat old Lucas Browne get a mention? Dave Allen did a job on him in half the time in his next fight.

Why does shot to absolute **** 41 covid Povetkin get a mention? He was on bambi legs before he even got to the ring. He looked like he'd wandered off the retirement home, his mechanism was totally gone.

Fury, Fury, Fury, Ortiz, Ortiz, Stiverne 1, Chisora, Parker, Zhang

vs

Joshua, Parker, Chisora, Chisora, Rivas, Povetkin 1, Fury, Itauma

Wilder also has a fight against Usyk coming up in all probability. He may not be competitive but you will never see a less competitive fight than Itauma-Whyte.

Wilder has got more at the top of his resume, and more in the mid point too. Helenius would be Whyte's next best and Wilder has him, plus two guys who beat him.

This narrative about Wilder's resume may have held some weight in 2017 but it is a desperate denial of reality at this point.

 

Once again you are trying to place your opinions as facts. Thay are not.
Browne got a mention as at the time Whyte fought him, Browne was big punching, undefeated former world champion who originally won his world title away in Russia against Chagaev a decent HW and 2 time belt holders and I think possibly greater than any of the opponents Wilder beat
That is not to knock Wilder, as I am certainly not doing that as I rate him highly, but that was why Browne got a mention at that time

 

Browne never won a real belt and it was a life and death against final fight Chagaev (who was never very good in his prime) 2 years prior. Browne was on the cusp of 39, had put on a lot of weight, was inactive, on meds and had been KO'd in sparring. He put up little resistance. 13 months later Allen KO'd him in 3.

Mentioning Browne is simply inflation of Whyte's record. Helenius was clearly better but you won't mention him as it undermines your argument.

 

Many fans have it in their minds that Joshua is the hero of the heavyweight story. He cannot do wrong. They don't even allow him to lose or look bad. They cannot fathom anyone pointing out this story going against logic.

It's a strange groupthink. We rational fans are asked to believe the following:

• Vladimir Klitschko at age 41 with two years of ring rust, no belts, away for the first time in a decade, is a better fighter than active Vlad at 39 as champion at home. Styles don't make fights this time
• Andy Ruiz Jr. is a power puncher who landed a fortunate temple shot
• Joshua looked very impressive losing his second decision to Usyk
• Otto Wallin was easily a top 10 fighter, some publications even had him top 5
• Joshua is better than Fury because he KO'd Ngannou, and Fury won a close decision
• Dubois would've beaten anyone but Usyk the night he beat Joshua
• The Jake Paul fight is fine because someone needed to do it
• The Prenga fight showed how much heart Joshua has. Joshua can still punch and Fury has a bad chin. Joshua had a bad game plan. The performance doesn't matter due to the crash
• Tyson Fury is a bad person
• Tyson Fury has been ducking Joshua for 10 years
• Deontay Wilder has been ducking Joshua, a man susceptible to big right hands, for 10 years

Reality continues to slap these poor fans in the face. They are struck, unsure what happened, and do what they know; excrete another excuse for a guy who simply isn't who they want him to be. It's fine to be a fan of a fighter - I enjoy watching Joshua fights because they're entertaining. Where folks go wrong is the suggestion of some skillset, some achievement, some greatness that does not align with reality.

 

Do you think they will wake up when Fury KO's him? Or are they too far gone?

 

Fury allowed Makhmudov to last 12 so surely its possible he could do the same for Joshua

 

Even someone with AJs limited brain capacity will be thinking to himself how much of his career was real, and how much of it was fake.

After Prenga having to be told to "stop punching" after round 1, he will be thinking to himself, how many of his other opponents were told the same thing.

AJ is in a sport where your ability to take a shot is the minimum, and he simply cannot now hold a shot even from a Uber driver.

Its been a very carefully stage managed career, but after that any pretence of it being genuine just went down the pan.

 

Of course I could mention Helenius
Whyte beat him years prior to Wilder. It doesn't undermine anything as if we were going down that route, could go round in circles with mentioning Parker for either, where we know how that went as well.
You talk about mental gymnastics and then lose it talking about sparring stories to try and find higher ground
When someone has to go to sparring stories to make an argument about resume, you know then that they have lost it

 

WBC belt holder for 5 years....

No Joshua, Usyk, Parker, Povetkin, Klitschko, Ruiz, Fury (Until the WBC thought he was too far gone), Chisora, Whyte, Joyce, Zhang, Sanchez, Hrgovic, Miller....I'm sure there's more....But how on earth does a 5 year WBC belt holder manage to avoid all of those?

Especially when being given "Defences" against Szpilka, Duhaupas, Stiverne, Washington, Molina etc.

 

I've not see people suggesting he would "Lose because of the crash", people are just pointing out it's a HUGE disadvantage and can only be a harm to him physically.

Errol Spence clearly had significant setbacks following his crash, was that all made up too?

 

Don't worry, he will tell you how he heard a story (one he cant personally site or confirm) that someone got beaten in sparring and think he can use that as leverage
He (@Redbeard7 ) really either doesn't get it or maybe just doesn't want to.
Either way you have furthered what I wrote somewhat about risk reward as I wrote Whyte was fighting to get a title shot and in fighting to get it fought on your list Povetkin, Parker, Chisora twice, Joshua in a bid to get a title shot whereas a defending champion only defended against Fury on your list

Redbeard7, don't take the debates so personally
They are nothing more than that.
I genuinely mean that

 

You "pointing out" it's a HUGE disadvantage IS suggesting he may lose because of it.

It ain't coming from AJ though. Just some of his fans...

 

You list a group of fighters Wilder missed out, but in that list include Fury (who Wilder fought three times), Chisora (who Wilder just beat, away from home and as the B-side), Parker (who Wilder fought at 38 and inactive) and Zhang (who Wilder fought coming off a career worst loss...) Wilder also appears to be on the cusp of fighting Usyk. Since 2018, Wilder's opposition level has been up there with anyone's.

Many of the guys you mentioned simply weren't in contention at the time. When did Sanchez turn pro and do anything? What was Miller doing? Chasing AJ and failing drug tests? Whyte was there but he was a Matchroom pawn, and should have joined PBC if he really wanted the Wilder fight. In reality he was a big yapper and nothing more.

The primary reason why Wilder didn't have more names on his record was he was fighting the best guy available in an ATG series. The trilogy with the 2nd best fighter of the era and No.1 HW at the time: lineal champion Tyson Fury, spanning 2018-2021. It was one of the greatest HW trilogies ever by common consensus, and the two KO defeats took a lot out of Wilder, in addition to those 3 years taking on Fury.

 

"Losing it" is claiming that fat old inactive Lucas Browne was a notable HW win. Even the Chagaev version would be pushing it. The Whyte/Allen version was a joke. Likewise, it is cheap to mention Povetkin 2. He was in much worse condition than Ali was vs Berbick.

After the respective lists of "notable" opponents, Helenius can be mentioned next for Whyte and Wilder. But Wilder had several opponents of that level, such as Duhaupas, Washington, Szpilka, Arreola and Breazeale. Whyte was comparatively lacking after you mention the guys who beat him, and his best wins vs Parker, Chisora x2, and Rivas. You're probably then onto Franklin, Wach, Allen and Browne.

 

I do not see how Stiverne 1 + Ortiz x2 + Fury x3 is worse than Whyte's path to a title shot of Joshua, Chisora x2, Parker, Rivas, Povetkin 1.

Wilder had the harder top 6, and he had more down the levels too (Duhaupas, Szpilka, Arreola, Washington, Breazeale vs Allen, Helenius, Browne, Wach).