Why did Anthony Joshua exhibit such poor defense?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Slyk, Oct 17, 2024.


  1. Slyk

    Slyk Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I always forget that Dubois didn't just KO Joshua, he completely outboxed him.
     
  2. DubbleJab

    DubbleJab Member Full Member

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    I think the Usyk fight, especially the second one, resulted in Joshua realising he will never be "The Man" in the Division anymore, and he lost his edge.

    One thing that has worked against Joshua, is that he's never had an elite trainer. Whilst it was probably a mistake to leave Robert McCracken, his success with Froch was largely based on the fact that Froch was as hard as they come, he had a granite chin. His success came largely from walking through opponents and outlasting them....That option isn't open to Joshua, especially being a HW.

    I also think Joshua made the mistake of chasing perfection. He wanted to prove people wrong about his flaws, instead of embracing them. He became too much of a boxer and seemingly a purist....He needed to just buy into the chaos that his power can bring. The fact he tried to outbox Usyk, twice, is ridiculous and proves this point.

    Joshua was always going to suffer defeats the same way Vlad suffered defeats, that's no surprise. Both have similar flaws actually, and no, I'm not trying to claim Joshua's prime is comparable to Vlad's, I'm just stating that both are relatively robotic and have been exposed in fights by 'lesser' fighters, because of their flaws.

    People like to play down this Era of HWs, but I personally see it as being much stronger than the last....Vladimir Klitschko would've been given far more trouble in this era, by guys like Zhang, Parker, Dubois, Wardley, Kabayel etc, than a lot of the guys he fought.

    Joshua had the pieces to be the strongest HW of this Era, before Usyk arrived, but they weren't put together right. But still, only Usyk and Fury are ahead, in their peaks, than a Peak Joshua of this Era.....Wilder is a long way behind. Joshua could never have been ahead of Usyk though, he just has far more amateur pedigree for anyone in this Era.
     
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  3. MaccaveliMacc

    MaccaveliMacc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Calling Wlad robotic is crazy talk.

    As for the contenders - Zhang would be a stylistic nightmare for Klitschko looking at the Sanders fight. The rest of them would be another Peters, Povetkins, Pulevs, Chagaevs. Wlad's era wasn't weaker than this era. He was just levels above anyone the way nobody from this era was up until Usyk showed up.
     
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  4. Slyk

    Slyk Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This line is a perfect distillation of what I see as the mass delusion surrounding Joshua on this forum:

    "Joshua had the pieces to be the strongest HW of this Era"

    What pieces? We've seen him defeated by getting countered in an exchange (Ruiz), getting outboxed so thoroughly he was almost stopped, losing two lopsided decisions (Usyk I & II), and getting outboxed and beaten down by a come forward fighter (Dubois). That is a LOT of variety in losses. The result is that he didn't have the pieces to be the strongest HW of the era, but the many ways in which he could be defeated show that he never even had the potential to be.

    Joshua fandom seems to be stuck in this mindset of "If Ruiz didn't land that counter" or "If Usyk didn't exist" or "If Dubois didn't 'concuss' him with a slow telegraphed overhand right", then somehow, Joshua would be the undisputed best of the era as he should be.

    It's insanity. It's the strange dream of the fanboys of this forum. He's an okay fighter (for the elite level) with a billion dollars of marketing behind him.
     
  5. Slyk

    Slyk Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This is absurd.
     
  6. Kiwi Casual

    Kiwi Casual Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yeah, I always found the "but if he didn't lose" argument to be a bit crazy. He DID lose.

    No shame in that of course, there's always some who'll have your number/bad nights etc, but I wish his fans didn't prop up so many excuses.
     
  7. Slyk

    Slyk Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The new line is that Joshua had a "bad game plan". Every time he's lost it was due to a "bad game plan". Not avoiding a telegraphed overhand fight after fight is indeed a bad game plan.
     
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  8. MagnificentMatt

    MagnificentMatt Beterbiev literally kills Plant and McCumby 2v1 Full Member

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    Yeah, if anything, this could be said about Fury.. Of the 3 top dogs before Usyk, he was the only one who seemed to have ATG potential - but his lack of discipline and focus for 12 (and shitting around too much instead of fighting AJ or Usyk earlier) limited him. Honestly, I'm sure many still consider him an "H2H ATG" even if he's well down the list historically..

    I never saw it with AJ though.. At his best he was reliant on his power and physicality - and when he stopped relying on that he basically went downhill.

    I don't think he has ever looked bad or lost due to a bad game plan... Rather he A. Loses focus or B. is over-confident in his boxing ability (Ruiz / DuBois) or C. Is just overmatched (Usyk)

    I think "Okay" for an elite level fighter is a very fair rating.. Still giving him his props as elite - which is very rare air, but acknowledging his limitations.
     
  9. Barrf

    Barrf Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Dubois isn’t a bad boxer. He’s a bit robotic but his skills are solid. And he’s got a great jab. And heavy hands.
     
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  10. ad4m88

    ad4m88 Active Member Full Member

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    he just looked so top heavy on saturday no wonder a gust of wind was wobbling him