Who was greater? SRL 147 or Monzon 160

BELIEFS? I only talk facts

You're telling me that Leonard won titles in five divisions. Is this true?

Who did Leonard win his 4th and 5th titles from if Lalonde only held one title???

here's where we are going to find out if the posters here actually believe what they're saying.

I actually saw one of the posters here saying that if Leonard had faced a contender of the caliber of a Jean Claude Bouttier, or Denny Moyer, he'd be accused of cherry picking

I dont recall any such talk or criticisms when these defenses took place

Moreover, Lalonde was forced to honor a contract forcing him to compromise himself by melting down to 168. I dont recall Donny making other defenses or bouts at this low weight. Does forcing him down to such a weight also make him the champion at 168???

What other cases has this ever been done?

 

redrooster rides again

Even our trolls were higher quality back in the day. Oh the nostalgia.

 

Leonard might have had the edge in quality while Monzon had the depth and longevity. Very hard to decide .

 

that's really not the defense I was hoping to see but as I expected, you have none

i presented the video. No comment

I posed the question above. no comment and I knew none would be coming. nothing more than fantasies from emotional fan boys.

 

thank you for your honesty. If only other posters had your traits

 

This is the conundrum. I picked Monzon based on a combination of dominance, consistency and longevity. His quality of opposition was good (Benvenuti x2, Griffith x2, Valdez x2 and Briscoe). He’s likely in most people’s top 3 middleweights ever.

The knock on him when compared to Leonard is that he didn’t look as good aesthetically and he didn’t meet opponents of the caliber of Benitez, Duran and Hearns who were all at or near their absolute peaks when Leonard fought them. But Leonard didn’t manage to remain unbeaten in 15 title fights at the weight like Monzon did either.

No doubt in my mind though that Leonard is the greater fighter overall with his additional title wins at weight classes above welterweight.

 

Incredible.

The rationale needs to be applied to both fighters. Leonard lost a bout at welter to a former Lightweight. A guy older than him, so Ray has the big advantage in age. And he lost. In his prime.

Later on, when he was the old guy, he was ko'd at middle by a non puncher up 6 weightclasses. Can you imagine Monzon having this kind of result count for zero on his record?

How many defenses did Leonard ever have? He sure fought for lots of titles. How about fights against pedigreed up and comers? Timely rematches?

 

Your criticism is valid. But I think most would agree that Roberto Duran wasn’t just any former “ lightweight. “

 

Only three of those were at welter and he lost his biggest fight at welter to a former Light weight

 

The comment was addressed to someone who was criticising Leonard in general. I put Monzon’s 160lbs career above Leonard’s 147lbs career.

 

Leonard... Beat better competition.

Better collection is skills as well

Both arguably the best at their weights

 

Have to agree with this. How do win a title at 168 when neither one was even ranked there. Probably a cheap vacated tille, but still point stands. Also the fight was at 168 ( CW ) , not 175. Thats not a LhtHVY fight. I dont think anyone counts 2 titles, at least not me

 

There's not much context in that take, Zad.

Duran hadn't been beat in almost 7 years. He was the ebst P4P boxer on the planet. He campained at welterweight for around 2 years and 8 fights leading up to Ray. He put on an absolute vs Carlos Palomino who had only just lost his title to Wilfredo Benitez. Leaonrd is considered by many as Duran's great performance.

Duran wasn't yet 30 years old. Duran had the experience and it certainly showed. Ray had entered his prime but he wasn't peak. Duran gave him a lesson, one he emerged from as a better fighter. He received a crash course in psychological warfare and he learned he wasn't unbeatable. The gut check didn't hurt him either.

Despite Ray being favorite 17 out of 30 writers chose Duran, almost all of them by knockout. Duran was hardly considered old or declined. Quite the opposite.

Why would it possibly count? Leonard hadn't fought for more than 6 years and the last time he did he was easily outsped and outpunched by a young gun. Camacho meanwhile had been fighting continuously and was actually a ring rated junior middleweight who fought Oscar for his world title next bout.

Duran being the "old guy" at 29 against Ray isn't remotely comparable to Leonard's bout with Camacho. They are worlds apart for reasons I've already touched on.

Monzon left on top. Leonard should have too, with Hagler. You know what most boxers are like tho.

These are valid criticisms, the weaker area's of his resume.

 

Guess I still have not overcome the bitterness of losing big bucks on that Benetiz stoppage. Had lots of money on it.

Man, it was tough to bet against Ray Leonard though. I had Hearns in both bouts. Only won on Camacho & Norris. Had to change my Hagler bet to no bet when those Hagler sparring stories were out there.

And remember the Howard Cosell stuff with Leonard? He thought he was solely responsible for building him up--as he did with Ali. But Trainer & Leonard sure did not share that opinion. But it sure did benefit his early career.

But overall I like guys that go into hostile waters. Road Warrior. Fight the other promoter's guy. When they are old, fight the pedigreed up and comers. Afterall that is how boxing tends to work. Changing of the guard when old reflexes fight youthful reflexes.

So after everything is said and done; I have a prejudice against Ray. But that does not mean I do not think he was the best welter of the last 50 years.