Joe Frazier vs Usyk

Not only that but Frazier and Ali were both swinging hard with most shots.

Usyk throwing 900 “punches” is also more of a fairy tale since a lot of his punches are feints or slap like shots. He isn’t throwing 900 proper crisp hard shots. Sure, he is throwing in plenty of hard shots but he is also throwing in plenty of tippy tappy shots to give the illusion he is scoring heavily. It’s a style that works well in the amateurs but doesn’t work well vs guys who know not to fall for it.

Frazier isn’t going to be deterred by tippy tappy punches. Ali repeatedly unleashed 5-7 punch combos on Frazier where every punch was thrown with brutal intent. And that wasn’t enough to keep Joe off.

 

No it isn't. Your's is about punch out put and mine is about effective aggression. Are you saying Chisora was better than Frazier. A simple answer and no deflection. Try not to act smarter than you are, it's transparent.

 

Usyk is a great fighter but Frazir is a very tough stylistic match up ... forget about the pressure he's put on his body and if Usyk has an Achilles Heel its to the body .. he'd be fighting a much better, faster, better conditioned, harder hitting version of Chisora .. not a good match up ..

 

Hi Buddy.
You make an excellent point regards Ali and the very hard and hurtful punches he rained on the ever so courageous Frazier, in fact I think the FOTC was a lot closer than the majority believe, that said, Joe paid dearly for his fortitude, to the extent he was never quite the same fighter after.
stay safe buddy, chat soon.
Mike.

 

I agree Mike that the FOTC was a lot closer than most might have it.

Can’t speak for the judges but at times the commentary team appeared to give more credit to Joe for withstanding and walking through Ali’s shots than they were actually giving to Ali for landing those same shots.

Though, conversely, at one point during the fight, the commentary team did say Joe can’t keep taking those types of punches - but, as it happened, Joe did keep taking those punches in order to land his own bombs.

What a fight that was. Still the very best at HW by a good margin imo.

 

Fair points dmt.

 

Someone should analyze his work rate vs Bonavena or Bugner then to see if there is a difference.

And at the risk of being repetitive the guys Ali was fighting were cruiserweights and light heavyweights by today's standards.

 

Have you actually made a pick in here?!?!?!? Have you told us how you see the fight going? lets have it.

 

Hello InMemoryofJakeLamotta.

I will go with the best version of Joe Frazier to defeat the best version of Oleksandr Usyk by 12 round decision.

 

That's a nice, extensive reply.

I can't help but notice it completely ignored the technical reasons I'm favoring Usyk and the uphill challenges Joe faces in this, which seems to be a recurring theme. Yes, Chisora and Frazier are different fighters and although Joe's the superior fighter, there are challenges he'll uniquely face in this fight nonetheless.

I don't mind giving Joe his flowers and acknowledging when his backers on here make good points. Seems like that's a one way street, though. It's unusual to me how defensive people are that a smaller man who's legally blind to Usyk's lead hand and who has no southpaw experience may struggle with those adjustments on fight night.

Ultimately, it's a footwork fight. I don't think Joe's going to successfully get the lead foot dominance on the outside he needs for lining up the angle on his left hook (particularly to the body, which would be his path to victory).

I also believe Joe lacks the straight right I view as key to beating Usyk in these matchups.

You're willing to take a lot for granted in your analysis and give Joe those benefits of the doubt, letting the "styles make fights" do the heavy lifting, , and that's cool; I'm just not sold. I think Ali matches up much better than Frazier does, personally.

 

But your point is an assumption based on Frazier never fighting a southpaw so you're assuming Frazier would have immense trouble but i don't necessarily agree.

Yes Usyk is a rare southpaw Heavyweight but i still think the stylistic match up matters more.

The way to beat Usyk is to crowd him go to the body and sustain the pressure for all 12 rounds.

Breidis showed that as did Chisora but the latter didn't have the cardio levels down the stretch to sustain it.

You're not taking into account that Usyk would have great difficulty keeping Frazier off him. And as i said a boxer type is always going to have major difficulties against an elite swarmer, unless they have real concussive power to stop the forward momentum.

Ali had to really sit down on his punches and even then he had to take brutal body punishment. And Usyk doesn't take body punches anywhere near as well as Ali did who was a bit of a freak in that case.

Who hit Usyk the most in his career ? was it a Super Heavyweight ? or was it a Cruiserweight named Briedis ?

And how did Briedis manage to do that despite not being the size of same of the Super Heavyweights Usyk fought ? constant pressure and styles make fights.

So how did Chisora have plenty of success then ? he doesn't have a noted straight right hand he's also known as a clubbing puncher. Yet he still crowded Usyk despite the footwork issue which you keep bringing up.

I don't see why Frazier wouldn't be able to crowd Usyk and make life uncomfortable for him. The only difference is Frazier won't gas in the last 3 or 4 rounds like Chisora did.

Well aren't you taking alot for granted aswell ?

Your whole argument is based on an assumption Frazier would automatically have alot of trouble vs Usyk because he never fought a southpaw.

There hasn't been that many southpaw Heavyweights throughout history ? so does that mean that every notable Heavyweight in history automatically becomes the underdog vs Usyk based on that ?

My argument is more based on actual visual evidence of Usyk having issues vs swarmers/pressure fighters.

Hence it's logical to think based on the stylistic match up and the visual evidence that Frazier would give Usyk alot of problems.

 

Hi Buddy.
Have read most of the threads/posts on the outcome of this match up, and yours makes the most sense, well as least to me, I have no dog in this fight, and have judged all posts on their merit, I hadn't given much thought as to who would win, but would favour Frazier now.
stay safe.
Mike.

 

Usyk doesn’t have Alis natural gifts but is one of the smartest most fit and skilled Heavy champs. He also hits harder than Ali. Unlike Ali he hits hard enough to stun Frazier and back him up which Joe wasn’t much good at. He rarely backed up but when he did he was getting beat. Don’t think Usyk can run Joe into the ground like Foreman but can plaster Joe with shots over a longer period of time that will have a snowball effect and eventually stops him.

 

Finally!

 

This is rich.

1) Right. That's not what you said. Here's your exact words:

Silly me, why would I think "far superior punch output" meant "far superior punch output"?

2) And here is me already answering that question in another reply. Spoiler alert: I said Joe's the better fighter because I believe that and don't have a problem giving credit where it's due, regardless of if it's detrimental to my conclusion.

You don't even want to own what you're saying, and I'm the one with the agenda?