Is Crawford vs Spence A Top 5 ATG Performance At 147?

It's a shame we don't have film of Robinson vs Gavilan 1 & 2.

It's a good question, off the top of my head I wanna say probably not but I would have to give it some more thought.

 

Do you think either Pacquiao or Mayweather have a performance that's a good contender here?

 

Absolutely not.

It's not on the same level as Duran dismantling Palomino or Curry's destruction of McCrory.

SRR Vs Zivic
Hearns Vs Cuevas
Griffith beating Tiger - EDIT: not fought at WW
Gavilan besting Basilio
Pete vs McGirt I
Benitez vs Palomino

All of these fights are better overall performances/results, all things considered than Bud beating a shell of what Spence used to be.

 

If we're going to be ranking performances specifically and not just the win itself, film is needed imo.

EDIT: And Griffith vs Tiger wasn't at welterweight...

 

Apologies - yeah, I conflated Griffith with being the welterweight champ with the fight contested at WW. D1ck of course was MW, Griffiths didn't even make 154 lbs for the fight.

Film may be needed but even if we go with the film, there's plenty of better performances and without the film, there's much better results when context is applied.

That Spence fight is a great win with a genuine massive asterisk against it.

 

Is Honeyghan over Curry in this discussion?

 

If one knows anything about the long and rich history of welterweight boxing. It's doubtful if that fight makes the top 100 wins in the history of that division.
A clearly diminished Spence faced the clearly overrated Crawford.
There's nothing special about Crawford or Spence other than how poor this era of the sport has been.

Its more of an indication of how mass media works today with every 20-40 year old "boxing expert " with a Twitter or YouTube account, and a cell phone can transmit there recentcy bias to millions worldwide, as if the sport started after they were born.
It's like on Twitter or X, one cannot scan through without someone giving out boxing tips.
Someone no one's ever heard of or seen before but now he's a savant boxing trainer.
Apologies for my" old fart" rant lol....

 

McCrory was a good fighter, certainly better than the version of Spence that showed up in the ring and yes, Honeyghan Vs Curry is much better.

Bud Vs Spence is similar to Ali Vs Williams - it tells us a lot about the man who won but that's about it. As a contest, it's not their best fight or performance relative to the context of the opponent and what the fight truly represents as a challenge of will and skill.

There's an asterisk to the McGirt fight but the fight still is a much greater performance or holds more historical weight for a few reasons, to my mind.

Pernell Whitaker beating McGirt remains a fundamentally superior, higher-calibre victory than Bud Crawford beating Spence Jr.
You're not wrong about McGirt's shoulder - however, there's no equating two completely different types and degrees of physical impairment.

The first distinction that separates the fight is the physical state of the opponents: Buddy's torn tendon Vs. Spence's systemic trauma.

To compare these wins fairly, you have to look at the exact nature of what McGirt and Spence were dealing with when they stepped into the ring.

Buddy McGirt’s Shoulder
Buddy McGirt did enter the ring against Pete with a damaged left shoulder - a torn rotator cuff that effectively negated his ability to snap his elite left jab and hook.

However, McGirt was the lineal Welterweight Champion, carrying a multi-fight win streak, and was widely considered a top-5 pound-for-pound fighter in the world. Crucially, McGirt’s physical issue was localised to a single joint. His cognitive timing, footwork, spatial awareness, stamina, and chin were completely intact. In fact, McGirt fought a masterclass with essentially one arm, throwing a significant number of punches, landing sharp right-hand counters, and keeping the fight competitive over 12 high-level rounds.

Errol Spence Jr.’s Shell Status
Spence’s physical deterioration by July 2023 was not a localised joint injury; it was systemic, neurological, and structural wear.
Spence survived a horrific, high-speed Ferrari rollover crash that required facial reconstruction, followed by eye surgery for a torn retina. By the time he fought Crawford, Spence had competed just once in 2 years and was making a grueling weight cut down to 147 lbs.

When the bell rang, Spence didn't look like a guy with a bad shoulder adjusting his strategy; he looked like a drained shell whose central nervous system could no longer process high-speed incoming visual data. His reaction time was completely shot, his balance was compromised from the first jab Crawford landed, and his legs had zero grounding, lacking the natural bounce that comes with being in good fighting shape. Crawford executed a flawless beating, but he was dismantling a fighter whose elite athletic window had been closed by trauma and inactivity.

P4P standings and divisional dominance:

When Pete fought McGirt, both men were at the absolute top of the sport. Whitaker was moving up to 147 lbs to challenge the reigning, undisputed king of the division.

Whitaker vs. McGirt I: A confrontation between two active, prime Hall-of-Fame technicians operating at the absolute peak of their analytical powers. Whitaker winning that fight sealed his status as the #1 p4p fighter on the planet.

Crawford vs. Spence: A long-delayed match that happened 3 to 4 years too late. Had they fought prior to Spence's crash and layoff, it would have carried similar weight as Whitaker-McGirt. By 2023, the event was massive in name alone, but the physical version of Spence that arrived in the ring was vastly inferior to the 2019 version. A fight built on the rep of the pre-crash Spence whilst serving up the shell of the post-crash Spence who was effectively a dead on arrival opponent for Bud to beat up on.

Whilst both fights can be asterisked, the reasoning and therefore diminishing of the result isn't the same; both have context but they are essentially different levels of contest because:

McGirt after Whitaker: Buddy underwent surgery, recovered, and went on to fight over 20 more times, remaining an elite world-class contender and fighting Sweet Pea in a competitive rematch less than 2-years later.
Spence after Crawford: Spence was utterly destroyed, absorbed career-altering damage, and has not been able to return as an elite force since fhen.

Ross Vs McLarnin
SRR Vs Bell
Armstrong Vs Zivic
Griffith Vs Rodriguez
Rodriguez Vs Griffith
Napoles Vs Griffith
Gavilan Vs Graham
Palomino Vs Stacey

Even with some asterisks, the relative competitiveness of the fights and the fighters in the fights rank above Bud and Spence fighting when Spence really shouldn't have been cleared to compete in hindsight.

 

I think it could be top ten but it didn't take long for me to come up with ten I'd have higher.

Hearns vs Cuevas
Duran vs Palomino
Duran vs Leonard
Leonard vs Hearns
Leonard vs Benitez
Napoles vs Cokes
Rodriguez vs Thompson
Gavilan vs Turner
Griffith vs Ortega II
Armstrong vs Ross

 

I don't think Spence was a shell of himself so much as he was just overrated to begin with. His fanbase saw things in him that just wasn't there. Errol was good solid welterweight but he wasn't special.
Terance Crawford in my view was the real deal. He could do everything in there box, slug, fight inside, switch stances, he had a killer instinct. He was dedicated to the game.
In a sense the fact that narrative is being pushed that Spence was a shot fighter is a testament to how good Crawford was in there.
To keep perspective on it though is important if you have a grasp of boxing history. It was a great win for this modern era at least as good as any win Mayweather had.
I judge Crawford as one of the alltime greats because he was dominant, he was blatantly ducked throughout his career and he had supreme ability. He was a throwback imo.
I don't have him in the alltime top 10 or the GOAT. That is nonsense. A great fighter though certainly.

 

One of the better wins in welterweight history that probably get overlooked was Felix Trinidad's explosive knock out of Yori Boy Campos. At the time both were undefeated, Campos was 56-0 with 51 knockouts.
Slugger/pressure fighter vs slugger boxer. Short explosive bout with Trinidad climbing off the canvas to spin Yori Boy's head around like the exorcist practically.
While his win over Blocker was impressive this one was against stiffer opposition. People knew Trinidad was the goods following this bout.