Primo Carnera's best wins. He was actually a good world level heavyweight

My understanding is that Da Preem was 'effectively managed', and there is an ambiguous term, during his early career due to his money making potential based on his size, yet later in his career developed into an awkward fighter who actually learnt how to use his strength and size. Never a great, or particularly good boxer, but one who maximised his physical advantages. I don't think he even knew his early fights were gimmes. A very brave and morally upstanding man during WW2 from memory, fighting with the Italian resistance against the Nazis and Italian fascists. There is surely...another...film in his life!!

 

Max Baer vs Tony Galento (02.07.1940) – Heavyweight Slugfest – HQ Full Fight Colorized

You just don't appreciate Galento's subtle skills!

 

Hi, sorry to keep asking for your takes.

Was just wondering if you could go more into why you think Carnera's KO over Sharkey wasn't legit. I'm on the fence but considering, it's an anomaly in both their careers, and given Carnera's track record with fixed fights, I'd lean towards it not being on the level.

I don't think the film tells us much one way or the other.

 

Are we talking resume or evaluating his ability?

You could argue that they are inextricably linked, but I think Carnera is one of those fighters whose record on paper looks better than the eye test watching him fight.

I like the phrase "awkwardly effective" in relation to Carnera. He didn't look great, but he has wins over plenty of guys who looked better.

Don't have to over-analyse it either. He was huge for the era and had a massive size and strength advantage over most people he fought. He didn't appear to have much snap on his punches, and if you could get to him you could hurt him. Problem with fighting a giant though is that otherwise simple things get a lot more complicated.

His resume (assuming all on the level), is pretty solid for the era.

 

Perhaps a comparison could be Valuev? Another fighter who became champion through sharp match making and simply learning to use his huge physical advantages to their absolute maximum...

 

Valuev appeared to be more durable to me.

 

Primo was a good heavyweight???? You been at that rum cake again Alice!???

 

Definitely more durable.

 

I don't think Carnera was as bad as some people think, watch him fight and he reminds me a lot of Wlad. Primo had a very good jab. Yes, a good number of his fights were fixed, and his best wins are against fading former greats, but he filled venues during the Great Depression. His American debut he packed in over 18K fans. In Spain he set a record for attendance against Uzcudun with over 70K. By the time he faced Louis he had nothing left. Baer took whatever was left of his fading prime, diabetes took the rest.

 

I don't think that he is particularly close to being the worst lineal heavyweight champion.

Some lineal heavyweight champions really only have one or two elite level wins, and that clearly isn't true of him.

His record probably puts him more in the lower middle tier to be honest.

 

The evidence is very weak.

 

This. The myth that Carnera’s fights were fixed was just that. Many of the suspensions against Carnera were questionable, since most of the states suspended Carnera preemptively without a hearing, which violated their own rules.

Early in his career he was admittedly matched very soft and for good reason considering he had no amateur career.

 

His fight against Jack Sharkey was almost certainly on the level.

Go back and watch it.

Yes Sharkey had the better of teh earlier in teh rounds, but in the rounds leading up to the knockout, Carnera was stuffing him.

It wasn't a miraculous one punch wonder.

The knockout punch actually comes when Sharkey bounces off the ropes, and gets caught by a sickening uppercut.

A slightly unusual event, but if that is what happened, then it is legitimate enough.

Sharkey didn't stage that, he just got knocked out.

On a side note, Sharkey was in a bad way after the knockout, and some newspapers reported that he was going to die.

 

Lol, ask away. I appreciate that you have the interest to do so.

As you said, first there is the circumstantial “evidence” - 1) an anomaly in their careers and 2) strong suggestions of fixes earlier in Primo’s career.

Sharkey whipped Carnera in fight 1 and as far as I can see he was never really apparently hurt by Primo over their two fights save for that one uppercut.

During his career in general Primo never gave much of a hint that he could whip out a punch of such implied power.

As to the vision, during the lead up to the KO, Sharkey suddenly appeared somewhat reckless and defensively irresponsible - seemingly out of character and his physical reaction to the uppercut, including the way his head went back, appeared histrionic.

He was then flat out and had to be carried back to his corner.

Later, an older Sharkey was hit with a ton of shots by a proven power puncher in Joe Louis.

Somehow, no single power punch from Louis (including vicious uppercuts) let alone the accumulative effects of same rendered Sharkey as apparently helpless as he was from Da Preem’s single uppercut shot.

Having said all that, it’s impossible to base judgment on the vision alone - like me, there are certainly people who have their own, different takes based on what they think they can see.

However, I did leave the most defining evidence until last…even Sharkey’s Mrs thought he tanked it.

 

Yup. Eddie once made a good point about the body mechanics being completely contradictory to the supposed power being generated. Another thing that contradicts the claimed power, as you said, is that Carnera never demonstrated that he could generate anywhere near that level of power either before or after.