the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Finally got around to rewatching Usyk vs Rico to see what the Usyk fanboys are all on. "The fight was close if you ignore Coppinger's card or the commentary", "The punch stats were actually very close", and all that. Well, let's see.

Round 1: Rico round. Landed 2 very good right straights to the body, and even sent Usyk crashing towards the ropes after he avoided one of Usyk's shots and charged him, landing a good right hand to the head. Usyk didn't land anything of note this round. Only landed 1 somewhat clean punch that was still more of a grazing shot than anything. Rico was winning the hand-fight between their lead hands throughout and was dictating the tempo and geography of the fight. Rico 10-Usyk 9.

Round 2: Closer, but still Rico by a shade. Usyk had him at long range for most of the round, not really landing anything but throwing that jab a lot. Rico blocking most shots, charged him a few times, closed the distance and pounded the body. Usyk noticed Rico is susceptible to uppercuts due to his hunched over posture, and even landed 2 very good uppercuts. But Rico stole it in the last minute of the round, charging Usyk, hitting him to the head with cuffing shots near the ropes and even a nice left hand right in the corner. Even landed a few nice shots at the last 10 seconds after breaking from the clinch. Rico 20-Usyk 18

Round 3: Total Rico domination. Didn't lose a second of the first half of the round. Landing nasty body shots and head shots. Usyk landed something good in the middle of the round, but then Rico almost took his head off with a right hand that hurt him and made him drop his work rate. Usyk closed nicely in the last 15 seconds, but compared to the rest of the beating he got this round, it was nothing. Rico 30-Usyk 27.

Round 4: First clear Usyk round, the only one so far. If the punch stats are close between them, it's because of this round, I'd bet. Usyk landing several nice uppercuts and good left hands throughout the round, clearly hurting Rico and making him fight on the defensive. Nice rough housing by Rico that clearly bothers Usyk a lot, and even landed a massive right hand near the end. But it's an Usyk round for sure. Rico 39-Usyk 37.

Round 5: Somewhat Close Rico round. Not a lot going on, lots of hand fighting at mid range, but Rico again charges at him and pounds him in the first minute. Most of these shots by both guys are grazing shots, but Rico is outworking him and dictating the pace, even showing nice defence through his blocks and defensive pivots. Rico 49-Usyk 46.

Round 6: Clear Rico round. Dictating the pace, out jabbing him, roughing him up, even landed an eye catching 1-2. Usyk just on the backfoot throughout with grazing and blocked shots. Rico 59-Usyk 55.

Round 7: Dominant Rico round. Out jabbing him for the majority of the lead hand battle, landing some nice right hands, and even the best shot of not just the round but the fight so far, buckling Usyk's knees. Usyk landed a nice hook around Rico's guard, but I don't recall him landing much else of note. Apparently the stats by this point are 18 jabs by Usyk landed to Rico's 10, out of 157 thrown each. And Usyk landing 49 power punches out of his 151 to Rico's 46 landed out of 134. Yeah, I don't know what these combubox guys are seeing. Whatever the punch stats are, they're bull**** and/or don't tell the whole story. Rico 69-Usyk 64.

Round 8: Again, clear Rico round. Landed the 3 or 4 biggest punches of the round, 2 of them nearly back to back, and then both guys just kinda postured around for the 2nd half of the round. If anything, not capitalising on hurting Usyk is what ended up "killing" Rico here. Too content admiring his own work and not bringing the hurt to Usyk. Usyk on the backfoot and Rico on the frontfoot and just kinda doing nothing for a lot of it. Every time Usyk lands anything remotely good, Rico rushes him, throws a flurry of cuffing shots, and has his man tied up. Rico 79-Usyk 73.

Round 9: Say it with me lads. Clear Rico round. Roughed up Usyk nicely, landed the cleaner shots, outworked him and just generally beat him to the punch. Every time Usyk lands anything remotely good, Rico comes back with double the load like a Pokemon using Retaliate. Rico 89-Usyk 82.

Round 10: Again, clear Rico round. Outworked him, landed the nicer shot throughout, including a nice jab-body jab, and had Usyk shelling up for most of the round. Usyk came alive in the last 30 seconds and woke Rico up with a few good shots, but it wasn't enough to win the round. I don't think Rico was as hurt as the crowd's cheering would make you think. Rico showed nice defence under chaos, moving around to escape the corner, clinching to thwart Usyk's offence, and even landed a right hand at the end of the round. Doesn't help that Usyk's genuinely kind of a terrible finisher that tends to flail around after hurting a mobile target. He started chasing Rico around like he did Fury in the first time, except this time he just couldn't catch the guy that well. Rico 99-Usyk 91.

Round 11: Clearly Usyk's round due to the knockdown, which would make it 107-101 Rico, but it was very even up until that point. He was finding Rico with some pretty clean shots, but he was also getting roughed up and outworked. Rico didn't even show any sign that he was in any danger before the uppercut Usyk found and dropped him with. He certainly wasn't any more in trouble than he was in round 4. And honestly, looking at the fight now, I think it was just as much of a balance shot as it was him hurting Rico. He clearly felt it, but he was heavily leaning forward while stepping towards Usyk, and rose up almost immediately. And the stoppage ? Yeah, even more bull**** than it felt when I first saw it when seen through colder, less emotional lens. I'm not convinced Usyk even wins the 12th, let alone stops Rico in it. Usyk wins by bull**** TKO.

Why do I get the feeling the blood Gods will bless Wilder with a punch that KOs this version of Usyk ?

 

yet to watch the fight but holy ****.

but yeah,ngl people really underestimate some kickboxers when it comes to boxing ability,they haven't peeked thru the lower divisions to see former Muay Thai boxers winning belts lmao,or how some kickboxers just have good boxing via sparring/getting well accustomed to it (ex. Langsuan Panyuthapum and Rick Roufus),or with how some kickboxers actually started boxing first!

kinda laughable when you underestimate them.

 

Yeah for sure. Several MT champions also made it big, if not bigger, in Boxing.

Samart Payakaroon
Veeraphol Sahaprom
Saensak Muangsurin
Amnat Ruenroeng

Even Tenshin Nasukawa seems to be on his way towards something good at Bantamweight. He beat Jason Moloney and is now about to rematch Takuma Inoue. I don't think he'll win that fight, but Boxing politics are enough of a ***** that he could win a strap at some point.

The Heavyweights in particular need to wake tf up and realise they're not the Boxing skill savants the smaller guys are, and can't just come into the ring half prepared vs elite combat sport athletes who have woken up every day training to beat their asses, and just assume they can outskill them to death like madators.

 

don't forget Yokthai Sithoar,he did lose a few+his fight with Jesus Rojas is kind of a robbery but his fights were always exciting,and i don't think he really turned out to be a fodder in boxing,he always gave em challenge.

Chatchai Sasakul beat Rambaa Somdet M16 (very popular and funny Muay Thai fighter,check him out) and went out to go 1-1 with Yuri Arbachakov.

 

To be fair you gave Rico the close rounds. If someone else spun them the other way it might change things a bit.

Now I did have it Rico 106-102 before R11. It's not impossible Rico recovers in the final round either that's the big what if.

 

There were only two close rounds as I see it. The 2nd and 5th, and I gave them to Rico due to activity. I can see the 2nd for Usyk, but not the 5th. I've seen some people give him the 10th, but that's because Usyk landed a handful of good shots at the end. He clearly lost that round.

No doubt in my mind Rico would have survived the 12th. It's not as if the 11th was some sort of horrific beating. I'm even confident saying it's more likely Rico would have won the 12th compared to the chances of him getting stopped. His recovery ability is superb and he was doing an incredible job nullifying Usyk's offence in the clinch up close throughout the fight when Usyk wanted to let his hands go. I'm sure he could have done that for 3 more minutes.

 

Michael Spinks W15 Larry Holmes (2)

I have seen this fight, and had the impression (while not scoring it at the time) that the consensus was right; Larry got jobbed. His mouthy response to losing his title in '85 came back to bite him, and the "boxing establishment" as Larry liked to call it claimed another victim. Having now scored it, I'm left with a different opinion.

I did have Holmes winning, but just barely. This was a close fight. Holmes started beautifully, walking Spinks down and bullying him early. That impressive start didn't last more than four or five rounds though. He couldn't sustain it. Spinks is one of my favorite fighters. He creates on the fly, reinventing himself sometimes within the time frame of a minute or two depending on the need. Ever so gradually, he wormed his way back into the fight and left doubt in at least my mind as to just how unfair this decision was.

I've rarely seen a fighter play with the gray areas as well as Spinks. He commands the vacuum in a bout, filling in blanks here and there to take the play away and reset his command of the occasion. Because he got off to such a rocky start, he had a lot of ground to cover here, but on my card he damn near did it. he didn't throw as many punches the second time around, and Holmes rebounded with a good round here and there late to pad the early lead, but I'm taken by the fact that while I had Holmes hanging on and winning, it was still Michael Spinks that left the impression. I don't see this as a robbery. Others will disagree, and that's fine. Holmes could have done more, but his slower, aged body couldn't sustain the attack long enough to make it truly conclusive.

1. Holmes
2. Holmes
3. Holmes
4. Holmes
5. Spinks
6. Spinks
7. Holmes
8. Spinks (finding a home for the hook, a punch Larry was not supposed to be vulnerable to)
9. Even
10. Spinks
11. Even
12. Holmes
13. Spinks
14. Holmes (had to give him credit for nearly having Spinks down, though Michael landed more punches)
15. Spinks

144-143 Holmes.

 

I think it's hard to say how a R12 looks would have loved to know. Either way Uysk dodged a bullet and I agree he was behind on the cards.

 

Yea bad judging for sure, Rico should have had a big lead. Also should have seen the 12th round

 

Sugar Ray Leonard vs Tommy Hearns II

Round 1: 10:9 Hearns
Round 2: 10:9 Leonard
Round 3: 10:8 Hearns
Round 4: 10:9 Leonard
Round 5: 10:9 Leonard
Round 6: 10:9 Hearns
Round 7: 10:9 Hearns
Round 8: 10:9 Leonard
Round 9: 10:9 Leonard
Round 10: 10:9 Leonard
Round 11: 10:8 Hearns
Round 12: 10:9 Leonard

Total: 113-113 DRAW

This was my first time scoring this fight. I heard a lot of people saying Hearns was robbed in this one. I don't feel this way. Yes, he scored 2 knockdowns, but most of the remaining rounds were close, and giving 7 of total rounds to Leonard, which makes the fight a draw, isn't anything controversial. I think Hearns blew it by his lack of activity between rounds 8 and 10. Sugar Ray had his moments as well, almost stopping The Hitman on 2 different occasions. Cracking fight, but not as good as the first one, which is one of my favorite fights of all time.

 

I had it for Hearns by a point, maybe two, I forget. Way too close to be called a robbery though.

 

Willie Pastrano v Jose Torres (light heavyweight title)

I generally like watching something competitive so I never watched this fight before, as I always read it was one-sided. And it was, but for historical reasons I wanted to see these two in action, having never seen a lot of them. Anyways, under NY scoring on their rounds basis, I had Torres leading 8-0-1, giving Willie only a share of the 1st round. Torres dominated the remainder of the fight, ripping through Willie's defenses in every round. Willie's jabs and combos could do nothing to Torres and his Cus D'Amato taught, peek-a-boo style. Only in the 4th round did I see Willie have success with the uppercut on that style but it still wasn't enough as Torres was ripping those hellacious body shots. The left hook to the liver that dropped Willie in the 6th was such a text-book shot that it should be used in years to come as the guideline for future boxers on how to incapacitate an opponent. Pastrano hung on for 3 more rounds and the ref pulling him before the 10th was the compassionate thing as he was clearly hurting after the 6th.

 

I could see round 4 going to Hearns, which would have won him the fight on my scorecard.

 

I always read about Rafael Orono and imagined his style (incorrectly) but never saw him fight until now. Here are a couple of his fights.

Rafael Orono v Orlando Maldonado (super flyweight title)

Round 1: 10-9 Maldonado
Round 2: 10-9 Orono
Round 3: 10-9 Orono
Round 4: 10-9 Orono
Round 5: Orono drops and stops Maldonado

Total through 4 completed rounds: 39-37 Orono (scores not known)

I felt Maldonado deserved the 1st round by a 10-8 because the ref disallowed what I felt was a clear knockdown. A right hand along the ropes in the 1st dropped Orono but the ref called a slip or whatever. Regardless, Orono took over from there with his looping hooks and uppercuts and dropped Maldonado in the 5th and the ref stopped it. He was impressive.

Chul Ho-Kim v Rafael Orono (super flyweight title)

Round 1: 10-9 Orono
Round 2: 10-9 Orono
Round 3: 10-9 Orono
Round 4: 10-9 Orono
Round 5: 10-7 Orono (scores 2 knockdowns)
Round 6: Orono drops and stops Kim

Total through 5 completed rounds: 50-43 Orono (all 3 officials scored it 50-44 for Orono)

In their first fight there was some controversy regarding the stoppage awarded to Kim. Some say liver shot, I believe the Orono camp said a low blow. There was a rematch clause but Kim made about 5 title defenses before the WBC threatened to strip him if he didn't honor his contract. I gotta tell you honestly after seeing Kim here against Orono I'm left wondering how he made 5 defenses because he looked so ordinary against Orono. Orono simply toyed with Kim hitting him with every hook and uppercut in his arsenal. Kim went down 4 times in the 5th but only 2 were counted as knockdowns (I understand all 3 judges scored that round only 10-8. I scored it 10-7). But the real controversy in that round which apparently was never reported was that when Kim went down at the end of the 5th, the bell quickly rang. But very clearly in the bottom right of one's screen it is showing 41 seconds remaining in the round. But in spite of any national trickery, it only prolonged Kim's pain as he was quckly stopped in the next round. Orono was impressive.

 

I watched it a few years ago I had a bit closer than you but we see it the sameway.

Davis had a very good defence and frustrated Spinks but he wasn't active enough IMO.

Spinks built up and early lead and did enough in the final 3 rounds to win a close but clear decision IMO.



Michael Spinks vs Eddie Davis

1 Davis
2 Spinks
3 Spinks
4 Davis
5 Spinks
6 Spinks
7 Spinks
8 Davis
9 Davis
10 Spinks
11 Davis
12 Spinks

115-113 Spinks

So i said i would watch this fight eventually @salsanchezfan

This was a very enjoyable fight, Davis showed great defensive skills making Spinks miss alot, and Spinks showed a tremendous heart of champion, even on an off night never stopped trying for the KO.

Me personally i slightly preferred Spinks's more eye catching harder punches, yes Davis did make Spinks miss an awful alot of punches with some magnificent head movement. But the problem was he'd often make Spinks miss and not make him pay, to Davis's credit there would be rounds where he would fight 3 minutes of round, with effective aggression and good defensive skills. But then there would be rounds like between 5-7. Where Davis showed alot of defensive skills, but he wasn't throwing enough punches and allowed Spinks to get off first. And despite Spinks missing punches there would be times, where Spinks would connect with some very flush punches.

In all honesty there's so many close rounds in this fight, and i wouldn't argue a win for either man or a draw. Davis has a strong argument with his effective aggression and defense, and Spinks also has a strong argument for landing the harder punches. Me personally i do appreciate good defense, but too many times in the fight Davis just wouldn't make Spinks pay for the misses. And Spinks would steal rounds just being busier and getting off first, and as i said before not all of Spinks's punches missed, and when they did land they were very effective.

Lastly two of the judges scorecards were a joke, and i'm sure you don't need me to tell you this. I think a rematch would of been interesting between Davis/Spinks, also Qawi was at ringside and he himself wanted a rematch vs Spinks. Personally i would of liked to have seen both rematches but it wasn't to be.

But all in all a very good fight, one of the more underrated Light Heavyweight fights of the 80s.