Joe Calzaghe vs Prime Roy Jones jr, James Toney, Andre Ward

TBH I think this will probably be the last time I will interact with threads like this. Because I don't think either side is ever fair and it just turns into a slanging match of hating on fighters.

Can we just be unbiased and look at all positives for each fighter instead of all this hating all the time it just makes people sound very bitter.

Obviously Calzaghe is a great fighter and his southpaw style, workrate, skills, chin, would make him a very hard opponent to beat for any Super Middleweight in history.

But we don't have to pretend like Calzaghe beat anywhere close to a prime RJJ. Because he clearly didn't and a fight between them at their best would look vastly different.

In fairness Calzaghe also wasn't at his peak either when he fought RJJ. But the difference was he was still beating elite fighters like Kessler, Hopkins. Where as RJJ stopped beating elite fighters after 2003 and he fought Calzaghe in 2008.

And that's the big point people are missing out on here. Is that both fighters were at different stages of their career in regards to competing at the elite level despite being of a similar age.

I'll just finally say no I don't think Calzaghe would beat all 3 fighters and that's no disrespect to Calzaghe. Because I don't think any Super Middleweight in history would go 3-0 vs RJJ, Toney, Ward.

There's also a bit of an unknown quantity for Calzaghe against a great fighter in their prime as he technically never fought one.

But I am sure Calzaghe would go the distance with all 3 fighters and they would all be very competitive encounters no matter the outcome.

I'd make RJJ a significant favourite over Calzaghe winning a competitive UD 116-112 on points.

I'd make Toney a slight favourite based on his very good track record vs elite southpaws Nunn, Johnson, Jirov. But it would be a very close decision on the cards that could go either way.

I'd make Calzaghe a slight favourite over Ward winning a close controversial decision.

And that's my final thoughts on this thread.

 

Calzaghe did fight Roy and completely embarrassed him. An example of one fighter not fighting another is Roy and

Calzaghe and Roy did fight and Calzaghe absolutely dominated him. An example of fighters not fighting is Roy and Michalczewski. Calzaghe was also willing to travel to fight like he did against Hopkins. Roy was not. Toney was often poorly prepared and conditioned due to him ballooning up in weight between fights. Ward was a very crafty fighter. Calzaghe being willing to fight Kessler was a bigger risk than anything Roy ever did at 168 or 175. Roy was called ‘reluctant’ for a reason he was too scared to take risks.

 

The fact is you have weird "feelings" for Roid Jones Jr.

 

I don't attack Calzaghe for fighting RJJ it was a big money fight for him to have his farewell fight at Madison Square Garden in which Calzaghe always wanted to fight at.

My issue is when people are trying to imply it was close to a prime RJJ when it clearly wasn't.

I think it's plainly obvious RJJ in his prime would perform way better against Calzaghe than the 2008 version.

Calzaghe also wasn't in his prime to be fair but again as I keep saying 1 fighter was still competing at elite level and the other one wasn't.

RJJ hadn't beaten anyone elite since 2003 and Calzaghe was coming off the two best wins of his career.

So whilst Calzaghe wasn't at his peak his level was still of the elite level where as RJJ wasn’t.

As for Hopkins I give Calzaghe much more credit for beating Hopkins as Hopkins was still elite before and after facing Calzaghe and that's the difference.

Finally as for Pazienza I don't give RJJ stick for the fight because it wouldn't even be considered in his top 10 wins for me it's just filler for his resume.

The top 10 best wins for RJJ IMO in no order are the names below

Toney
Hopkins
Griffin 2
Hill
R.Johnson
McCallum
Ruiz
Tarver 1
Maglina
Tate

Some of the wins I included was the manner in which RJJ won.

For example I thought Malinga beat Benn twice and he also dethroned Reid at age 40.

Malinga was a very tough individual and RJJ blew him away.

Tate had never been stopped his only other stoppage was very late on his career on a cut to Ottke.

Tate had also gone 12 rounds brawling toe to toe with one of the hardest hitting fighters of all time in Jackson.

And again RJJ blew him away in just 2 rounds.

 

Nobody and I mean nobody loved trinket belts more than Glass Jaw Roy who even paraded around with such worthless belts as the NBA, WBF, and IBA belts that were worthless. Roy’s run at light heavyweight had several disgraceful defenses that have already been pointed out to you. Yes, Roy moved through divisions but he did it in a very cautious and carefully crafted way avoiding the top fighter(s) in those divisions. He wrote letters to the sanction bodies on more than one occasion to have his mandatory changed he wouldn’t travel to fight and was one of the most reluctant handpickers of the 90’s and early 2000’s he also tested positive for PED’s. Literally everything you are accusing Calzaghe of doing Glass Jaw Roy did himself and on top of it Roy was a PED cheat. Roy’s resume is littered with civil servants and no hopers he had a ton of hometown fights or fights in obscure places. All of this was for a reason.

 

Rico Spadafora,

He fought a washed Roy, after literally saying that Roy was shot and that a fight with him would be pointless.

His words, from his autobiography.


That has nothing to do with a prime for prime fight.

There was no prime for prime fight.

Why?

Because Joe wouldn’t go all out to make it. And again, since retirement, he’s said on 2 occasions that he doesn’t know if he could have beaten him.


Has this sunk in??

He wouldn’t fight him when he was prime, he doubts he could have beaten him whilst prime, so he had to settle beating what he perceived to have been a shot version of him.


That was pathetic.

Anybody else would have been crucified for such behaviour.

Roy didn’t have to travel back then. He was in a position of power as the P4P king.


Yes, James was often unconditioned. And had he have fought Joe, he could have completely underestimated him. He could have had a rude awakening for sure.

But if we’re talking prime for prime, with the best version of each guy, then you know that James would had to have been favoured.


Joe vs Ward? That has always been a 50-50 to me.

I think it would have played out similar to the Hopkins fight.


Again, there is nothing laughable about people predicting Joe to have gone 0-3.


We have discussed the ‘Reluctant Roy’ tag many times.

Fans were desperate for the Dariusz fight.

But you know that Universum would never meet with HBO, in order to make the fight. No official negotiations ever took place.

Hopkins also blew the rematch.

Nobody labelled that Roy again, after he’d fought Ruiz and Tarver.


No, fighting Kessler wasn’t a higher risk than Roy fighting Tarver and Toney.

Kessler had beaten nobody noteworthy going into that fight.

Whereas Toney was a top 3 P4P fighter, where he’d beaten Nunn, McCallum, Reggie, Littles, Barkley and Williams.


As you also know, Roy had to burn healthy muscle in just a few months, in order to drop back to LHW from HW, against a very good southpaw in Tarver, in a tough stylistic match up.

Both of those fights were a far bigger risk. Even Ruiz. Ruiz wasn’t great. But he was still a HW against an ageing former MW.

 

I'm guessing you are probably only about 30, to have so little knowledge on the subject
Eubank has a better SMW resume than those 2. You could argue Collins and Kessler even.

A very old post below as this has been done to death.
Andre Ward............VS.............Joe Calzaghe
Froch.....................................Kessler (Kessler the better win) (Kessler beat Froch)
Kessler...................................Eubank (Eubank the better win)
Dawson..................................Lacy (Lacy a proven SMW and winner of 5 SMW title fights. Dawson no pedigree at all at SMW) (Lacy the better win)
Abraham.................................Mitchell (Mitchell a 2 time SMW champ who had never been clearly beaten, only lost by debateable SD in Germany to Ottke, had KOd long time SMW champ Liles, beaten a future SMW champ twice, compared to AA who had done nothing at SMW) (Mitchell better win)
Bika.......................................Brewer (Bikas best win became Manfredo, Brewer had beaten H Graham and was a SMW champ) (Brewer the better win) (Bika was a Calzaghe left over at that time and had been out of the ring bar less than a round for a while)
Green.....................................Woodhall (Woodhall a SMW champ, who had beaten a reigning SMW champ, a world rated former champ, a future SMW champ and Branco a world rated SMW who became WBA LHW champ, who at SMW beat R Reid and G Johnson who when old and shot KOd Green) (Woodhall a better win)
Miranda...................................Bika (Bika now a top 5 SMW had drawn with 3 time SMW champ Beyer) (Bika a better win)
Buchanan (?????)......................Sheika (Sheika a better win) (Sheika was coming off a win over G Johnson and was a top 10 SMW at the time)
Camou (?????)..........................Veit (Veit a SMW title holder who had a fair resume, better than at least 2 of the current top 5 SMWs) (Veit a better win)Then include the Reid win and then the other top 10 SMWs and its clear Calzaghe is well ahead. I could have put Mkertchyan ahead of Green, Camou, Miranda, Buchanon

 

It’s just deflection from you.

Refute the points made.

 

This is all garbage, with zero context applied.


Roy never seriously defended any of the lower level belts in his prime. You know that. They just ran alongside his main ones.

Yes, he made several awful mandatories. But they were mandatories. Whereas many of Joe’s weren’t.


He didn’t hand pick guys.

He fought very credible fighters at the weight:

Griffin
Hill
Reggie
Gonzalez
Harding
Tarver
Woods
Hall
McCallum
Glen


That’s 10 world level guys at the weight.

That’s the same amount of world level guys that Joe fought in his entire 15 year career.


Again, Joe wouldn’t fight him.

Dariusz wouldn’t fight him. He wouldn’t even negotiate for a fight.

Again, Hopkins blew the rematch and then went missing for a year.


All you’re doing here, is deflecting.

Joe held a trinket for a DECADE.

He spent 75% of his career fighting non world level guys.

Once he fought 3 in a row.

He rematched a guy who he’d already beaten in a round.


Come and defend this.

 

Roy absolutely defended those NBA, IBA, and WBF trinkets in his prime. In fact he did it against some of the ‘top 10’ fighters you have listed above like Woods and Gonzalez
You have a severe propensity for lying which makes it hard to even believe you aren’t some form of autistic troll at this point. Calzaghe’s WBO belt was far more relevant than the NBA, IBA, WBF, and even IBO trinkets Roy paraded around with for years. Roy was reluctant and even called that by his own pay tv network he fought on. He wouldn’t travel to fight and was a known serial handpicker of fights. This isn’t up for debate. Roy also has an abysmal Glass Jaw which when taken into consideration explains a great deal about his career and how he carefully maneuvered through divisions fighting as many civil servants as he could find. Again, the very things you are accusing Calzaghe of doing Glass Jaw China Chin Roy did himself. It’s very very odd. Almost like there is mental illness on display here.

 

They made for nice photo opportunities.


He didn’t brag about them, genius.

He didn’t take them seriously, where he defended them with mandatories etc.


They just ran alongside his main belts.

Even when he fought for them in his 40’s, he wasn’t interested. He didn’t label himself as being a LHW or CW world champion, simply because he obviously knew that they weren’t respected world level belts.


All of this is just more deflection from you.

Roy had all THREE of the MAIN belts.

Whereas Joe held the WBO belt for a DECADE.

Nothing you can say will change that.


The ultimate irony:

A simpleton like yourself, questing my mental health.

Priceless.


Nobody cares that Joe’s WBO had more value than Roy’s trinkets. Again, they went alongside Roy’s main belts, which Joe didn’t have for years.

Why?

Because he had no ambition. Which is why he once fought 3 non world level guys, as well as a guy he’d already beaten in a round, across a 4 fight series. And in his 30’s, when he’d still not fought any great fighters.

Come and defend that.

I’ll wait.


I have already addressed the reluctant tag. It was for a BRIEF moment in 2001. And it was grossly unfair.

1. He’d recently beaten Eric Harding, who’d beaten Tarver.

2. He’d recently beaten Hall, who’d given Dariusz a great fight.

3. Behind the scenes, he’d been trying to negotiate for a Dariusz fight.

Shorty afterwards, most people realised that Hopkins had blown the rematch, and then he fought Woods, Ruiz and Tarver.


So you’re talking about a very tiny window.

There’s simply no comparison to what Joe did. Again, 3 back to back non world level guys, before rematching Veit.

Embarrassing.


He didn’t have a glass jaw. Tarver had very good power. Most of the other knockouts were due to him having an open defence at an advanced age. Taking huge shots of CW’s and HW’s, into his 40’s.


It doesn’t matter what you say, Joe, Dariusz and Hopkins wouldn’t fight him in the early 00’s.

You can do your own research on it.

It’s true.


Now either refute what I’ve said, with some credible evidence, or move along.

 

It's interesting
All the names you mention above have a loss that comes back to Calzaghe or at least had a tough decision that comes back to Joe
Truly amazing

Griffin lost to Tarver who lost to Hopkins who lost to Calzaghe

Hill lost to Gonzalez who lost to Woods who lost to Starie who lost to Calzaghe

Reggie lost to Jackson who lost to Hopkins who lost to Calzaghe

Gonzalez lost to Woods who lost to Starie who lost to Calzaghe

Harding lost to Johnson who lost to Sheika who lost to Calzaghe

Tarver lost to Johnson who lost to Sheika who lost to Calzaghe

Woods who lost to Starie who lost to Calzaghe

Hall lost to Johnson who lost to Sheika who lost to Calzaghe

McCallum fighting Graham to a SD who was stopped by Brewer who Calzaghe beat
Or McCallum lost to Kalambay who lost to Pyatt who lost to Storey who lost to Starie who lost to Calzaghe

Glen who lost to Sheika who lost to Calzaghe


The form line really shows how Calzaghe really was head and shoulders above

 

Ha!

Brilliant!


Good to see you back.


We just need Zod and Knockout etc back.


It’s like going back in time to 2012-2013.

Those were good times.

 

What was the Joe-Ali one?

I think there’s a few.

Joe beat Roy, who beat Ruiz, who beat Evander, who beat Holmes, who beat Ali?

 

With those dates, it tells you how many times it has been done to death.
I nearly couldn't be bothered and then thought, for old times sake
Calzaghe seriously lives rent free in so many heads on here