Joe Calzaghe vs Prime Roy Jones jr, James Toney, Andre Ward

Calzaghe wasn't losing to guys like Danny Green though.

Jones was losing to guys several levels below opponents he previously dominated.

 

SUPER JOE !!!

 

Calzaghe had a massive cocaine addiction and somehow wasn't caught once on a drug test. It's almost like boxers have ways of bypassing drug tests. We know highly active, high-volume punchers with tons of stamina and speed, like Calzaghe, are especially suspicious when it comes to PED usage.

Reminder that Tommy Morrison openly admitted to using steroids during his professional career and was never caught by a drug test. If you really believe drug-testing results, why don't you guys believe RJJ innocence? The drug testers said he wasn't in the wrong, just like they say Calzaghe hasn't been caught for anything. I have a hard time believing both personally. If a fighter had the means to bypass a cocaine detection on a drug test, I find it hard to believe they wouldn't potentially use those same methods to avoid detection for PEDs.

One last thing, I recognize some names in here who constantly complain about weight bullies but somehow are fans of Calzaghe. I find that weird because Calzaghe was literally killing himself to make 168.

But at the end of the day, Calzaghe is an ATG super-middleweight and was fun to watch.

 

This see!a like a very sensible summary of the situation to me.
I watched this all unfold in real time ... Jones was the dominant star while Calzaghe built his record and, generally, fought low level opposition in Wales while doing NOTHING serious to force the fight. They were viewed on completely different levels. By the time Joe was fighting better opposition, Jones was fading. By the time they fought Calzaghe was still beating good fighters. Jones had not beaten a top fighter for years. No wonder Joe was so keen to face Jones in 2008!

 

Remember that the coke thing happened long after Zags retired and after he tasted more public celeb status after being on Strictly and havin that fling with his dance partner Kristina Rihanoff (fair play Joe!!!)

I never heard any rumours of Zags being on party dust or anything else when he was fighting, I'd imagine Enzo would have kept that stuff tight and given his boy a hiding if he was up to any shenanigans

 

. You clearly didnt watch his entire career because if you had you would have seen him call out both Roy and Hopkins on several occasions . Eubank and Nigel Benn also called out Toney on several occasions and despite him saying he could beat them both on one night , he never had the guts to step in the ring, and lest not forget that they held the titles at that time

 

Roy didnt have faster hands then Joe, thats a myth. Roy hand a one shot out of nowhere kind of speed., Joe have hands speed that was a blur . Lets not forget that we never actually saw what a prime Jones was like because he was always on roids during his so called prime, so we dont really know what a clean Jones was like

 

A note on this - Morrison started using steroids around 1990ish. Most state commissions didn't test for them until much much later they were only testing for marijuana, cocaine, and diuretics. Morrison's career was over by the end of 1995 and even Nevada wasn't doing fight night testing for steroids until 2002.

 

I've heard "Nevada didn't start drug testing in 2002," and don't get me wrong, I've repeated the same point many times and heard that statement tons of times. However, I recently tried to look into it, and I didn't find as much evidence as I hoped. So I'm not saying I don't believe you, but if there is anyone with a good resource, I would really want to look into it.

My point in bringing up Morrison is that many fighters have taken drugs and haven't gotten caught at all. Morrison, though, did pick and choose where his fights took place and took advantage of the local commission corruption, and not through the most common method in the modern era, which is masking the drugs. Shane Mosley is the best example of this and the example I should have led with: never caught by a commission test despite taking PEDs.

Sure, is it 1000% confirmed that Calzaghe took cocaine during his boxing career? No. Calzaghe himself said his cocaine use occurred after he retired. But cocaine use typically starts when someone has access to the money and fame that can make it easier to obtain, so I find it unlikely that he magically developed a cocaine addiction only a year after leaving boxing. I think it's reasonable to be skeptical about drawing a hard line between his boxing career and his later drug use.

 

I don’t believe that Joe used cocaine during his career. I personally think it was due to boredom etc after he’d finished.

There’s 2 great documentaries on Joe. They show him running those hills in Wales.

Very impressive.

Enzo had him running them, even as a kid.

They were on his doorstep.

That’s where his great engine came from.

He’d probably have made a good runner.


Regarding his weight, yes, he should have moved up to LHW years earlier.

The argument against it, was a lack of power.

However, there were a good few other guys at LHW with only limited power. And guys who’d also come from lower weight divisions.

McCallum, Nunn, Reggie Johnson, Ward and Hopkins, all moved up to LHW, where they only had respectable power.


Joe toyed with the idea for years, saying that his speed would give him huge advantages at the weight.

 

I watched his entire career.


Calling someone out means absolutely nothing, unless you’re going to back it up with actions.

Joe was a lowly WBO belt holder in a different division, where he was fighting mostly non world level fighters. And he did this for a decade.


Roy Jones was the P4P king and the undisputed LHW champion.

For many of his fights, he was earning $3-4m guarantees on HBO.


Joe had no profile in America, back when America was boxing’s powerhouse.

The ONLY way that the fight had a chance of happening, was if Joe had gone to America and up to LHW.

He could have raised his profile.

Created public interest.

Moved into a mandatory position.


Joe didn’t do those things though. He just carried on fighting whoever Warren and the WBO put in front of him, which is why he held the belt for a decade and made 21 defences of it.

He wouldn’t make the necessary concessions.

All he did, was flirt with the idea.


Yes, Hopkins was different. A legitimate offer was made to Hopkins in 2003. So Joe wasn’t at fault there. Although, he was still under the radar of the American’s at the time.


Toney didn’t fight Benn or Eubank, because King lost options after they had a draw in their rematch.

Of course he had the guts to fight them, remind yourself of who he fought.

 

Roy had faster hands, feet and reflexes.

 

To catch someone you need random testing during camp. Even Nevada was late to the game when it came to steroid testing. All the other state commissions followed suit after Nevada. Some states were very lax in their commissions and testing. I have no doubt had more stringent testing requirements been available in the early and mid 90’s several Heavyweights at the time would have failed tests.

 

The only way to try and eradicate it, is random, all year around testing, with huge bans.

Random testing in camp is no good.

The guys who take PEDS today, cycle it out of camp.

They actually don’t take PEDS during camp.

 

Toney beat multiple guys better than Benn and Eubank though. Laughable to think he would be afraid of them