Does Tyson deserve more credit for his Holmes fight?

In his autobiography, he wrote it was the only time he actually felt scared on a ring walk, and had the thought that maybe he should just not even do the fight. That's how ****ing scary Tyson was in his prime. A consensus top 10 ATG considered, during his ring walk, nope'ing out of the fight. Jesus.

Deep down, he knew he was going to lose. He knew when he signed. But he'd just lost his title, lost the rematch, figured his ability to earn big was done... then got offered the equivalent of like $10mil in today's money, so he went out there and solid his name on a resume for a big check, just like Joe Louis once did.

 

Hello, MixedMartialLaw.

I think Mike Tyson deserves a lot of credit for beating Larry Holmes then. Had Larry been in his prime vs. Mike in his prime, I believe it would have been a better fight, but I see no reason to think Mike still would have not prevailed. I believe in styles and Mike's Style was all wrong for any version of Larry Holmes, in my opinion.

 

Holmes was burnt out and unmotivated going to the Spinks fight. He came back better for the rematch and arguably won.
Don't think the layoff did him more harm than the constant fight schedule and beer drinking.
Holmes was rejuvenated and up for it. Lewis couldn't have done what Tyson did. Holy couldn't come close against a much older and fatter version.

 

Mmmm...no. It would never be close with Tyson unless Holmes was prime and even then the styles favor Tyson.

My two favorite heavyweights but head to head in their respective primes and Tyson should be favored.

 

No, Holmes fought ham and eggers because he saw how easy it was to get a title shot by emulating Foreman's comeback. Maybe easy isn't the word but how can Holmes get better by fighting unranked cannon fodder? Glorified sparring sessions.

He did it to get a fight with a ranked opponent, who happened to be Ray Mercer, someone whose style he favored, and if he won he gets the shot at Holyfield based off his name.

 

Who would Holmes have fought? He took the fight because he didn't want to fight a ranked opponent that could've been difficult with a potential loss, all but scrapping his bout with Tyson.

Holmes fought a 15 round exhibition to stay sharp.

 

The Holyfield fight just shows that triangle theory doesn't work. Holmes did a lot better against Holyfield than Tyson did.

 

Look , Holmes was out for about twenty months and hadn't won a fight on almost three years .. with no tune ups an about six to eight weeks to train he took on what ends up being the prime Tyson and he did it for what he did everything for which was money .. that said it was a pretty devastating Tyson that didnt just beat him , didnt just destroy him but was the only man to ko Larry .. I was there and it was horrifying .. you thought he might have killed him with that final shot.

 

But there are some people using Holmes perceived viability post Tyson to suggest that he wasn’t as far gone as it seemed when he did face Mike.

So, given your take on Larry’s post Tyson fights, I assume you’re not among the aforementioned people?

At any rate, I still believe it’s arguable that Holmes greater fight frequency (incl. perceived glorified sparring sessions) post Tyson tuned him up better than he actually was for Mike after 21 months of inactivity.

 

Eh, the KO really wasn't that bad if you re-watch it. Holmes was in the middle of trying to get up when the ref waived it off. He was never unconscious. The Shavers KD was way worse. With a modern ref, he wouldn't have been allowed to continue.

 

I've sort of had this thought. I know I've posted it before. His "old man prime", if such a thing existed, was age 42-43. I think that guy may have been able to survive Tyson. Win, hell no, but he may have heard the final bell. Because he got real canny and nobody ever really had him in trouble again. He may have been momentarily hurt (he said Mercer hurt him real early, at the point where he starts waving Mercer in like "come at me") but that was it.

 

Mike didn’t actually steam roll Holmes as he did, say, Spinks. However, over the first 3 rounds Mike was progressively and surely getting the better of Larry, landing a few bombs here and there.

It was the huge right hand (one of Mike’s best) that first put Holmes down that truly brought him undone, ultimately setting him up for the definitive KO shot.

If it’s worth anything Holmes did manage to hang for another min or so after the completely discombobulating right hand that scored the first KD.

Hypothetically, if Holmes wasn’t all he could be for the Tyson fight but was for his later fights, despite being older, he possibly could be calculated as being “better” in net terms for his post Tyson endeavours.

PS - I don’t recall Larry doing much of anything after the final KD - and to “sell” that he could’ve gotten up if inclined, Larry himself said he saw no point in trying to arise as a further beating would have only ensued.

Personally, I don’t think Larry could’ve gotten up, full stop but, as Larry framed it, he made no attempt to get back up at any rate.

 

What? Holmes was prone with his eyes shut, both arms splayed, the ref tended to him instantly. 12 or so seconds later he still hadn't moved. There was plenty of concern for him. He was helped up more than 30 seconds later. He tried to claim he could have gotten up, not a chance. I don't think he knew he got knocked out. He was up inside 10 against Shavers. It's not even comparable.

 

When I first read years ago Holmes claiming he could’ve arisen it did induce a chuckle.

You’d be hard pressed to find an example of any other fighter appearing more bereft of life.

And, as he went down, Larry’s leg bending so awkwardly underneath him was a seconds earlier indicator that he wouldn’t be getting back up anytime soon.