At What Point Did Heavyweight Size Become A Genuinely Decisive Advantage?

It hasn't happened.yet. Usyk, a former ceuiserweight , was able to twice beat Tyson Fury who is considered the best of today's suuperheavyweights. Lennox Lewis is the best of the bigger heavyweights in terms of the combination of height, reach, weight & athletic ability and even he lost to smaller heavyweights.

 

When Mike Tyson has the height and wingspan of Lennox, the speed of Ali going backwards and the versatility at all ranges of Holyfield.

Until then - a 6'2 - 6'5 who can genuinely punch and box, has a solid chin with great stamina weighing anything around 215 - 225 lbs will usually beat larger, slower footed, slower handed, poor headmovement, big punching guys who can't throw more than 50 meaningful punches a round.

 

Dempsey and Louis were beating much larger men in their day. You'd probably have to go back to pre-Dempsey era vs. 70s era when the disparity between talent and size became a relevant factor. With the exception of maybe Jeffries and a few others. Even then, former LHW Spinks wins the HW title in the 80s, and a fat blown up Toney is holding his own in a talent rich HW division of the 2000s.

 

Of course it happened, by degrees, started being noticeable in the 1960's & by the 1980's it was a big difference & challenge.

Usyk is only a good example of someone who is very successful when small for this era.

Even as a rehydrated CW he was big for any era up to at least the 1960's.
But the question is not what he was, but what a man is at HW.
And at 6' 3" 78" wingspan & having averaged about in the 220's lean, he both had to bulk up to handle the division well, & his size was big-or very large, depending upon the era-for any time before the 1980's.

Also, an occasional exception to the rule does not obviate that being a typical HW from mid century & before is not a "major disadvantage".
But you are shifting the gal posts when you use Lewis losses as an example.
The OP never postulated the bigger man always wins.
While Rahman & McCall are BIG compared to most past eras.
Rahman also was a powerlifter, & had a huge/disproportionate wingspan.

 

When Sugar Valuev won a title and ruled the division like Stalin.

 

"Talent rich" you say?

 

Usyk and Muhammad Ali have identical height and reach; coincifence or...? | Boxing News 24 Fan Forum

hahhahahha

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@Saintpat
What do you think, does Valuev play Katyusha better, or Kalinka?

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Katyusha or Kalinka? | Boxing News 24 Fan Forum

 

Liston had some issues catching up to Ali because he was carrying around that sledgehammer in his trunks. You can only be so mobile when you're that big. Trust me. (pinches lower back and groans) I know.

 

6.5 is huge though

 

It's even bigger if it's a legit 6'5 considering how many people overstate there height.

 

Size has always been an advantage, with the potential for that advantage to be decisive.

Clearly HWs have gradually gotten bigger over the past century or so, rather than at only one specific decisive point in time or only during one era.

However, imo, the most notable step change, was Sonny Liston. Take a look at the best fighting weights of his immediate predecessors:

Charles, 175lbs at his best, 180-185lbs at his HW best.

JJW, 190-195lbs.

Marciano, 184-188lbs.

Patterson (182-192lbs) beats LHW champion and leading HW contender Moore, who was typically about 185lbs at HW, for the vacant title, temporarily losing it to the c.195lbs Johannson.

Each of the 6 men listed above stood between 5ft 10.5ins and 6ft 0.5ins. Each had a sub 80" reach.

Then we have the c.215lbs Liston. Not much taller at 6ft 1ins tall, but with a huge reach in excess of 80ins.

Prior to Liston, there had been bigger champions, but they lost to much smaller men and sub 190lbs HW champions were always in the future ahead of each.

After Liston, the best HW on the planet was never under 200lbs again (iirc, Spinks was 199lbs when he beat Holmes, but I doubt he was the best HW on the planet). He represented an evolution in the combination of size, physicality, athleticism and technical ability, that meant sub 200lbs elite HWs, who up that point had been prevalent throughout gloved boxings c.80-year history, would never return.

Furthermore, the current lineal champion won his title weighing similar to Liston when he won his, around 60-years earlier. He's the closest example to the decisive point in time, imo.

 

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I will keep making this joke until the threads stop or until I get bored of it. No bonus points for guessing which comes first (I get bored).

 

It was always decisive just that you didn’t have a lot of good fighters much over 175. As more big fighters were available due to a lager population boxing becoming more global and the average person was bigger there were just more good big fighters. A great little man can beat a good big man but generally a good big man beats the good little man.

 

Well said!