Which Fighter's Were Most Damaged By Taking One Fight Too Many?

How was he at fault for promoting the fight? A promoter's job is to promote the fight. King did his job.

Is it the promoter's job to train the fighter, manage what drugs he's taking, make sure he's in the best shape? Apparently, even the top doctors examining him thought it was fine for Ali to fight Holmes. And everyone involved, particularly from Ali's team, were ready and willing to fight.

But Don King's supposed to know better and call it off?

Ali didn't do his job. Ali's trainers didn't do their job. The commission doctors didn't do their jobs. The Commission didn't do its job. The referee didn't even do his job. He didn't stop the fight. He never came close to stopping the fight.

Yet, somehow, what happened to Ali is Don King's fault? Screw that.

The only people who DID their job in Holmes-Ali were Larry Holmes and Don King. They did their jobs. Don King promoted the hell out of that fight. And Larry Holmes was fit and merciless in defense of his title.

The people on the other side of the ring, on the other hand, all of them, were a complete disaster. And they couldn't wait to blame ANYONE else for that pathetic showing.

And Don King didn't coerce Ali into doing anything. Don King gave Muhammad Ali $7 million dollars for his pathetic, hands-over-his-face, not engaging, doing nothing showing. The most money Ali ever received for any fight. And he did **** in that fight.

Don King gave Jeremiah Shabazz, a member of Ali's entourage, a suitcase with $100,000 cash in it and asked them if they'd accept that instead of the final million. Of course, when Ali got the suitcase, half the money was gone. And Ali accepted the cash, because then his manager Herbert couldn't also take half. (Because Herbert took half of everything.)

All Ali had to do was say no. All he had to do was say I want the rest. Done.

But Ali doesn't even have to take responsibility for that decision.

Don King didn't "coerce" Ali into doing anything. Don King WAS NOT Ali's promoter. Don King spent eight and a half years in the 70s NOT being Ali's promoter. Don King was never going to be Ali's promoter again. Ali and Herbert and the bank robber Harold Smith were going to do all the promoting from then on ... until that blew up.

Nothing was stopping Ali from demanding the rest. It was his call, but Ali was just as dirty as they all were. (How much you want to bet that suitcase money never made it on the tax forms that year? That's the only reason you accept cash in a suitcase.)

And, frankly, had the Nevada Commission actually done its job, Ali wouldn't have received ANY of his purse, or at least been fined a huge percentage of it. The Nevada Commission has confiscated fighters' purses for lack of effort. They've certainly confiscated fighters' purses for taking a mountain of drugs to improve their performance in a fight. They've issued massive fines for far less.

But they didn't do their job in regard to that, EITHER. Because they didn't stop the fight before it occurred. They conducted his physicals. They knew. They didn't stop the fight while it was happening. Their doctors didn't stop it.

And, truthfully, if anyone else turned in such a pathetic performance in such a huge event ... FANS would be demanding they not be paid. But, in that regard, Ali got another pass.

This insane NEED to blame Don King for **** he had nothing to do with when it comes to Ali-Holmes is insane.

Honestly. For all the blame King has gotten over the years, literally EVERYONE TO BLAME has received NO BLAME in comparison. They still aren't.

Larry Holmes is more to blame for the beating Ali received in that fight than Don King is.

Put Larry higher on the list. Along with all the other fighters who "gladly" (unlike Larry) teed off on Ali's head for years when he was fading. Don King didn't contribute to Ali's brain injuries. Someone filling a suitcase full of money for you doesn't give you brain damage.

They all deserve to be higher on the list of the causes of Ali's demise than Don King does.

I'm so sick of this Ali sob story. Ali took such a huge beating in October, that in December, they were already shopping around for the location for a Ali-John L. Gardner fight, they had Gardner signed, and Ali was trying to convince athletic commissions he'd just taken too many pills.

Ali's team didn't even see the Holmes fight as "one too many."

It's been nearly 50 years since that fight happened. People need to start taking a more realistic look at what happened. Because most of you don't.

 

Excellent points re the damage incurred from Ali’s extensive sparring, worsened by his propensity to allow his partners to wail on him to toughen himself up and to develop/hone contingent defensive strategies when under unavoidable fire.

I think Ali’s deliberate rope a doping or the like in sparring contributed a lot to the perception that he didn’t always looks so good in the gym.

And to think we have evidence of Ali on film already practicing some measure of invited offence from his sparring partners going all the way back to 1965.

In the same era Monzon might be the perfect counter example. I understand he didn’t do much sparring at all during his preps which likely contributed in some (large?) measure to his longevity and his remaining viably at the top for so long.

Carlos died at only 53 but I am not aware of him suffering any post career issues as a result of damage incurred during his many fights.

 

Not sure if it fits but the Fury-Wilder trilogy ruined both guys.

Fury complained of welts all over the back of his head and blacking out after the third fight. He retired for a bit.

Meanwhile Wilder looked glazed and wobbly on the ring walk coming out for the third fight and has just gotten worse fast, right and in a hurry ever since.

 

There’s also the older timers who weren’t so much in the public eye post careers so whatever damage they carried wasn’t known or so well known.

Jeffries had a rep. for taking punishment but what he absorbed against Johnson at age 35 after years of inactivity was the worst he took in one fight and at a far more vulnerable age and related physical condition.

Jeff might’ve dodged the bullet of perma damage from that one fight but it’s just as possible that it did have its own long term effects.

Had it not been for the Jack Dempsey episode of This Is Your Life we would not have seen a public appearance of Fred Fulton otherwise and alas, poor old Fred did sound somewhat punchy.

Conversely, other guests like Firpo and Carpentier sounded fine - and of course the guest of honour Dempsey sounded great.

 

Well, apparently for some, Don King is a curious lock for canonisation post his passing.

Didn’t King also rip Ali off re the Holmes fight to the tune of 1 million dollars - opting to settle out of court to pay Ali a paltry 50K?

It’s not like that was an isolated allegation.

That’s what promoters do? Not so cut and dried and there’s somewhat more to unpack from that oversimplified description.

Next time I bemoan a dictator I’ll be ready for the response “But that’s what dictators do!” A complete lack of morality automatically assumed, right?

Ali could’ve said no? A drunk with a keg’s worth of beer already under their belt can also say no to yet another drink.

There’s a thing called responsible service of alcohol (aka duty of care) that duly acknowledges and reacts to impaired judgment.

Frazier said NO to Futch pulling him out of the Thrilla - should Futch have then shelved his duty of care obligation and said “My bad Joe, of course it’s up to you and you alone to go out there and cop further unnecessary punishment”?

 

If I ever am accused of mass killing babies I want you as my defense lawyer.

King was one of the many vultures feasting on Ali's corpse. Maybe not the biggest or more voracious one, but a vulture none the less.

And sure the ultimate blame falls on Ali himself and his massive deluded Ego. But that doesnt excuse King.

 

Thing is, nobody can deny King promoted some super fights, and fighters made a lot of money with him; but the flip side, where he swindled, stole and outright exploited a group of athletes who admittedly weren’t the savviest. I don’t live in a cocoon, business is a hard game, etc … but at what cost? Is that next million worth treating someone like garbage?

I know King isn’t alone in his practices. Vince McMahon, Joe Weider and others all made their respective sports mainstream, but hosed a lot of trusting and naive people on the way. To be blunt: if I know someone’s an idiot, or less-than-intelligent and I knowingly take advantage of them, I’m probably a shitty human. Not a big believer in karma, but even so - how do you live with yourself? Is wealth that important?

Just my righteous .02 …

 

Don King paid Ali more for any fight he had ever made before when he fought Foreman. Then Don King paid Ali more money for any fight than he ever made when he fought Frazier the third time. Then Don King paid Ali more money for any fight he ever had before when he fought Holmes.

Nobody paid Ali as much as King paid Ali.

Don King promoted Ali for 18 months in the 70s. The other eight and half years, someone else did.

When Muhammad Ali signed to fight Larry Holmes, Ali was nearly broke. He wasn't broke because Don King robbed him. He was broke because Ali blew his money, and everyone around Ali stole from him for nearly 20 years.

Don King paid Ali $7 million before the fight with Holmes, then Don King put $100,000 in a briefcase, called Jeremiah Shabazz, who was a part of the entourage and the leader of the dangerous Philadelphia Mosque, and he asked him to see if Ali would take the cash instead of the final million.

That briefcase didn't even make it to Ali without Shabazz taking half or Shabazz taking it to Herbert Muhammad first, who took half, before it ever got to Ali.

But Ali accepted the deal. The President of Muhammad Ali Professional Sports had all the money in the world, at the time (from robbing Wells Fargo), so Ali wasn't worried about money. Never really was.

Accepting the deal means you were NOT ripped off. Don King could exert no pressure on anyone in Ali's camp. They accepted the payment, because they preferred cash under the table. Simple as that.

And two months after Ali lost to Holmes, Ali's team were setting up another fight, this time against Gardner.

Not King. Ali's team.

Because Ali's health meant nothing to Ali's team. And when the president of MAPS went to jail, the Nation of Islam just made another fight with Ali in the Bahamas against Berbick.

Yet, despite all that, when people bring up Ali's health ... freaking Don King gets blamed ... for promoting the Holmes fight. It's insane.

Like King had anything to do with Ali's condition. Don King did not have anything to do with Ali taking "one punch too many."

And if you were making a list of the people who "ripped off" Muhammad Ali, Don King WOULD ALSO NOT MAKE ANY TOP 10 list.

Ali's condition, and Ali's lack of money, are not Don King's doing. He's taken the brunt for nearly 40 years.

But the next 40 years should be spent bashing the people in Ali's camp for robbing him and not training him, and letting him get his head caved in, and going along the ride for all of it. Because they've all gotten a pass.

Don King paid Ali close to $25 million for the seven or eight fights he promoted. Ali's team didn't pay Ali anything. They just TOOK. And most never did their jobs.

People just regurgitate the same crap over and over. They never actually look at what happened. Don King couldn't even put $100,000 in a briefcase and hand it to a guy in Ali's entourage, and that money get to Ali without half of it going missing.

But King's the bad guy ... and somehow gave Ali brain damage to boot. It's all bull.

 

When it came to Ali, King wasn't a vulture. When you pay a guy upwards of $25 million for seven or eight fights ... and then ask him if he'd take $100,000 for the last million, and the guy says YES, you ARE NO VULTURE.

The real con men are the guys who pay the champ nothing, ONLY TAKE from him, don't even do their jobs, and then call the guy cutting the checks THE VULTURE.

Nobody around Ali was paying ALI. Everyone around Ali had their hand out, except King. King couldn't even slip Ali $100,000 cash under the table without someone stealing half before it got to him.

 

Golota 1 was considered a blip. Most boxing writers thought Bowe had come in out of shape and he was expected to do much better in the rematch. Nobody foresaw a similar beating, much less the shocking state of Bowe after the fight.

He'd been the only man to stop Holyfield in his previous fight to Golota. Lewis had recently barely squeaked past Ray Mercer. Tyson, ironically, was generally thought of as top dog after the way he had beaten Frank Bruno.

I'm going on memory but Bowe would have been thought of as either the no1 or no 2 heavyweight at the time. In hindsight, wrongly, but that was definitely the view, albeit down to the poor form of the other possible top dogs.