Rate the following British fighters on a scale of 1 to 10

I want James Toney to do this.

 

Having Joe C or Hatton anywhere CLOSE to Lennox Lewis is asinine....

 

I had to quote you like this Serge too many characters.

That's not what's being said in this thread i'm not saying you are making this claim.

But there's a suggestion being made by another poster that Calzaghe is constantly having to fight against the mighty biased British outside his country.

It's ridiculous Serge.

Calzaghe is fighting on the British Isles it's not like he's going to Sven Ottke territory and getting robbed blind like Robin Reid did.

He's travelling 100 miles down the road to Manchester i don't consider that fighting on the road or taking a major risk.

Calzaghe fighting a solid Mario Veit in Germany that's a risk.

Calzaghe fighting a dangerous Bernard Hopkins in America that's a risk.

Yes but realistically that's not going to happen Wales is a very small place England is 6 times bigger than Wales.

On average you're going to get more English fighters and officials.

But that's what im saying pretty much all of Calzaghe's fights in the UK were scored fairly. So i'm not seeing the argument that Calzaghe was taking a major risk fighting a 100 miles down the road in Manchester because it isn't in my view.

And yes the Eubank fight was one of Calzaghe's best performances before he hand the hand problems and was known as a hard puncher scoring numerous early stoppages.

I've never questioned his chin you have to have a solid chin with his style of fighting.

But the weakness sometimes with Calzaghe is that he would square up and get caught too flush like he did vs Salem with a heck of a right hand.

I watched an interview today with Andre Ward/Joe Calzaghe. And Calzaghe said the last 2 fights of his career where he got dropped twice. That basically was a sign that he was past his prime and it was time to get out of the sport.

It's commendable as most fighters don't know when to quit and ruin the legacy and health.

Calzaghe is one of the few notable fighters to get out of brutal sport with his health intact so kudos to him.

TBH the Starie fight is one of the rare Calzaghe fights i haven't seen. When i was going through my Calzaghe career set like 8 or 10 years ago ? when i was a kid. I watched like 6 rounds of that fight and switched it off and moved on to the next Calzaghe fight, from memory it was an ugly fight where the styles didn't mesh at all so i can't comment on how close or competitive the fight was.

Again my comment wasn't really directed at you it was to the other poster in this thread who i was debating with.

I'm just not seeing the argument that travelling from Wales to Manchester is some major risk fighting outside your country.

Sorry Serge but i don't see it all and again it's not directed at you.

As i've said above i don't really care whether a fighter travels or not as long as the right fights get made that's all that matters to me as a fan.

Unless the fighter who's not travelling is benefitting from consistently getting very dubious officiating then i have an issue with it.

TBH Serge all 3 of the judges had pretty poor scorecards not just the British judge.

It was objectively a very close fight from memory 1 or 2 points in it. I believe i had Calzaghe edging the fight, but Reid did have a case with his cleaner more eye catching right hands.

But there's no way either fighter won 116-111 in my view.

As i stated above i already said fighting Hopkins in America was a big risk but i don't see the argument for fighting in Manchester on the British Isles as a major risk.

It was a stll a big risk for Kessler he's literally fighting in a stadium that's 30 mins from where Calzaghe lives.

It depends on the sport Serge.

For example Rugby or Football a team sport there will be more rivalry.

But in a individual sport like boxing i don't really think there's that rivalry to be quite honest unless it's like Mexico/Puerto Rico for example.

I don't think it's the same with Wales in boxing.

I think Calzaghe was very appreciated in the UK it's just he didn't have a global audience until he beat Lacy.

 

I don't agree.

I don't see how realistically it would be any different than an American fighter travelling from the East Coast/West Coast.

I don't see a Frank Warren backed Joe Calzaghe fighting a hundred miles down the road on British isles as some big risk i'm not seeing the logic behind it.

Also just because someone is from England it doesn't necessarily mean they will get biased support it depends on the city. South/North England have rivalries just like different cities in England have rivalries in football.

Reid is also from Liverpool and he fought Calzaghe in Newcastle ? so why would Reid get big support in Newcastle being from Liverpool ? unless it's an actual fighter from that city or area i'm not seeing that Reid would automatically get favoured ?

Also didn't the referee deduct a point from Reid ?

And how many well known professional Welsh boxing judges are there ? i don't seem to recall that many notable ones. So i don't think it's a deliberate attempt to stack the deck against Calzaghe.

But why would he feel the need to so though ? Calzaghe never had any bad experiences fighting in the UK and he was appreciated over there.

No British referee has ever shown bias towards Calzaghe.

No British judge has ever really had any bad scorecards in his fights, maybe the 1 against Reid but Calzaghe also had 2 bad scorecards in his favour aswell.

Also boxers don't really have a say on who the boxing judges are.

Again i don't know why you think someone automatically being from the UK is an advantage. When there's many different parts of the UK especially north/south and certain cities that have rivalries.

Reid being from Liverpool fighting in Newcastle is no more welcome than Calzaghe being from Wales.

Since when is someone from Liverpool fighting in Newcastle an advantage or will be popular in that city ?

If you're saying it's taking a risk you might aswell say someone from the southern part of the UK fighting in the northern part of the UK is a risk aswell what's the difference in reality ?

The narrative has come from later in his career probably from fights like the Manfredo fight. Which was stopped after a volley of slaps that missed which was quite highly criticised at the time.

Alot of people outside of the UK probably didn't have Calzaghe on their radar until the Lacy fight so after that they see the good/bad of Calzaghe.

They see good performances like Lacy/Kessler but also see a dubious stoppage vs Manfredo and some ugly fights vs Bika/Hopkins. And this is also when Calzaghe was slapping more and didn't quite the power he once possessed.

So they probably haven't got the history of Calzaghe's past fights in his early career.

Well to be fair Eubank did have to drop down from Light Heavyweight to Super Middleweight in just 7 days. So he was probably a bit weight drained his original opponent was also Mark Prince i believe.

Not that i'm saying that's Calzaghe's fault because Collins pulled out of the fight so Calzaghe fought the next best available opponent he could in Eubank.

I'm also not saying it made a difference to the outcome Calzaghe was simply the better man end of.

Overall I haven't got much else to add I feel like we just don't agree on certain aspects I'm from UK aswell. And when I was a little kid I remember seeing Calzaghe's fight against Lacy on ITV and I remembered him being liked.

So I'm just not seeing the argument behind that Calzaghe was some hard done by foreign fighter fighting against the biased system in the UK.

So let's agree to disagree we agree Calzaghe took risks in other fights. But I don't necessarily agree with you that fighting down the road in Manchester is not my definition of taking a risk.

 

Dubois is a 3.5 but other than that i agree

 

Never to my knowledge. Roy did fight abroad quite a bit. He got stopped in the first round by Danny Green the year after Calzaghe beat him. That was for an IBO world title if I recall correctly.

Calzaghe's career was fought in relative obscurity. He simply didn't fight on the world stage. That's a fact you & others can't acknowledge. He made many meaningless defences of a WBO belt that no-one cared about. Usually against blokes who had already been well beaten by other Super Middleweight champs.

The reason the Americans didn't travel is b/c they were fighting on the world stage when they fought in their own country. Their fights were televised around the world. Calzaghe's weren't. He spent the majority of his career defending a WBO Super Middleweight title that nobody gave a toss about. He himself realised that before his career was over & to his credit, did as much as he reasonably could to rectify things. He tried (unsuccessfully) to get the German Super Middles to unify. Unfortunately, they didn't give a toss about the WBO Super Middle belt back then either. Calzaghe did his best to flush them out by taking a fight over to Germany (against someone he'd already beaten) but they wouldn't budge. As I said in my first post on this thread, NOT Calzaghe's fault. He wasn't blowing smoke like you see fighters do today. He actually tried hard to make those fights & was willing to face them in their own backyards at a time when the Germans cheated everyone who went there blind. He then travelled overseas & fought Hopkins & Roy in America. Those weren't really big fights though. When the Americans get a whiff of smoke coming from the wrong direction, they tend to downplay fights involving their own guys. That's what they did with Calzaghe. Good wins by Super Joe I guess but they simply weren't big fights at the time. Any half-decent boxing afficionado should know that.

You're welcome, bro. Let me know if you need any additional history lessons.

 

In other news Gareth Bale is the greatest soccer player ever and Henry VII is the greatest King ever.

This and more news at 11.

 

It’s already been answered for you.


Their circumstances were vastly different.


America was a powerhouse back then.

They earnt millions of dollars on Showtime and HBO, fighting in New York and Vegas etc.

Almost all of their opposition/possible opposition, were either American or American based.

The Org’s they fought for were American based.

The promoters they fought under were American or American based.

Who was a guy like Floyd going to travel for??


Joe’s circumstances were completely different.

He was under the radar.

In Britain, with a low level belt, fighting mostly low level fighters.


Context is needed here.

 

Reid is from Runcorn.

It’s near Liverpool.


Serge is referring to the English fans uniting against the Welsh.

 

Ali loved to travel.

He didn’t need to though.


The Hatton-Floyd fight wasn’t bigger in the UK.

The bulk of the revenue comes from PPV.


Joe was in obscurity for the most part.

Nobody is hating on him.

You’ve got to stop this defensive behaviour.


Joe held a belt that wasn’t recognised as a major belt at the time.

Most of his opponents were non world level guys.

He was relatively unknown in the U.S. until he fought Lacy in 2006. But that was 13 years into his career, with only 2 left.

Yes, he had to travel to enhance his career.

Just like Hatton, Bruno, Naz and Benn etc.


This is factual information.

 

Calm yourself down and just debate.

Joe was a great fighter.

Me and others are simply explaining things to you that you aren’t aware of.


You’ve just labelled another poster as hating on Joe, because they’ve said something that you don’t agree with.

That’s just your defence mechanism.


Your questions have been answered.

In detail.


Joe’s circumstances were vastly different to Roy’s and Floyd’s etc.

 

Are you aware that Roy did travel.

But only after his circumstances had changed, and he was no longer in a position of power.

He fought in: Australia, Russia, Poland and Latvia.

Obviously, he’d never have done that when he was the P4P king.