Are there any areas where you would acknowledge that Usyk has an advantage over Ali as a HW?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by MixedMartialLaw, Aug 22, 2026 at 12:27 PM.


  1. Andre2000

    Andre2000 Active Member Full Member

    505
    760
    Jun 26, 2026
    I don’t think Ali was as “untechnical” as some might have it.

    See Liston 1, Ali displayed a good measure of textbook executions alongside his natural gifts.

    Ali knew that Liston was one not to be messed with. He was that much more efficient and less extravagant in his approach to a more dangerous opponent.

    Also, it seems that Usyk has been more hittable than he has been framed to be.

    Olek has relied on his own beard in no small measure, including during his CW career, which is exactly why we know that he has a great chin.

    I’d def. give Ali the advantage in hand speed though Usyk might throw more punches in bunches.

    However, as and when required, Ali could pull off scintillating, pin point accurate, 6-7 punch lighting fast combos - certainly Usyk himself has been caught by punches of much lesser speed.
     
    dmt and Bokaj like this.
  2. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    84,209
    139,898
    Jul 21, 2009
    They absolutely are and if they don't actually believe it they're pretending to

    And I've not been arguing that Usyk has just been past his prime at 39 y/o I've literally been telling everyone on here for years he's slowed down a lot and I noticed these signs of decline long ago
     
    gollumsluvslave and CST80 like this.
  3. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    84,209
    139,898
    Jul 21, 2009
    Allow me to educate the ignorant and blind or those suffering from selective blindness

    Watch from where it's timestamped

    A Usyk in his late 20s

    Firstly his title winning performance vs southpaw Glowacki and then his first defence 3 months later vs southpaw Mchunu

    And then following that a bunch of his KOs/stoppage wins in his first 9 fights as a pro ie. pre-CW title fight Usyk. Look at his speed, combinations, fluidity and precision even with single shots. His punching form even looked different in those early fights his combos had a more scything quality to them and certain punches even disappeared from his arsenal and I mean especially in those pre-CW title fights

    This content is protected


    Look at the speed and agility here when he lands those 2 uppercuts. First a left uppercut followed by a right one. When was the last time we saw him do that? Are people blind he was a different fighter back then so much faster, more agile, fluid, sharper, accurate with much faster reflexes and reaction times and even at CW we saw that diminish, let alone up at HW.

    That was him in his athletic prime and he wouldn't need to bulk up to 220-233lbs to fight Ali or in Ali's era because he wouldn't bee facing 240-280lb giants in those eras and he didn't need to bulk up period because he was like giant mongoose back then and his speed, athleticism, agility, sharpness, reflexes and reaction times coupled with his sublime skills, engine and iron chin was already amazing for a big man

    Timestamped

    This content is protected
     
    BCS8 and CST80 like this.
  4. CST80

    CST80 The Hesitant Nihilist Staff Member

    261,586
    266,105
    Nov 23, 2013
    It's so weird how both of us are so diametrically opposed to prevailing notions and ideas in some areas like boxing yet stodgy throwback old school purists in others like with films and music.:lol: It shows how fair and balance we're really being. We're never blinded by nostalgia, logic and reality are our governing principles.:D
     
    BCS8 and Serge like this.
  5. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    84,209
    139,898
    Jul 21, 2009
    :lol: As you know, I have no love whatsoever for modern films and I have zero desire to watch them. It's the same with modern bands and music too but if I hear a really good or great modern album or discover a really good or great modern band I'll acknowledge it and give them credit and I want to heat more even though for every really good or great modern album or band today there was literally hundreds and thousands before everything went to crap sans video games.

    And nor would I ever try and deny I have this bias either. Quite the contrary

    But I have zero desire to join music or film forums so I can crap on modern music, bands and movies like some of these Classic posers do on here with modern boxers

    Likewise, I could cause havoc over on the Classic with my skills if I wanted to, terrorizing all those wannabe historians and hipsters and shoving their cigars and fedoras up their asses :lol:
     
    MaccaveliMacc and CST80 like this.
  6. CST80

    CST80 The Hesitant Nihilist Staff Member

    261,586
    266,105
    Nov 23, 2013
    Yeah it all depends with me, there's plenty of modern films that I quite enjoy. But no matter how much I love them, they never quite reach the level of greatness that older films did. So that's kind of a moot point, occasionally something will come close like Doctor Sleep or Licorice Pizza, but they're the exception rather than the rule. I'm pretty much just like you with music. Thankfully I've gotten really good at sussing out which ones will be crap or appeal to me beforehand. So I effectively dodge all of the shitty ones.:sisi1

    I do occasionally take a crack at modern movie fans on X, but I tend to avoid that as well, because they're all a bunch of circular arguing trolls and spastics who drag you into some ouroboros like maddening loop. WIth their ok boomer nonsense when I'm barely ****ing Gen X.:lol: It's like Gen Z stare in argument form, I hate them all!

    I've gotten the urge to go to war in Classic but I'd probably be stuck there arguing for weeks and I'm not up for that kid of time investment.:lol:
     
    Serge likes this.
  7. brb

    brb Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,703
    563
    Sep 14, 2010
    1. Power
    2. Body punching
    3. Defense
    4. Footwork
    5. Distance control
     
  8. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    84,209
    139,898
    Jul 21, 2009
    But we don't deny or try to hide our bias and even though I'm much more close-minded when it comes to giving modern movies a try than you are and in my defence I rarely watch movies at all and as you know I have a very low opinion of modern actors and it's not because of their acting chops or rather lack thereof. I just generally dislike them

    I too enjoyed Doctor Sleep after you recommended it to me. Is it as good as The Shining? Of course not how could it be The Shining was directed by Kubrick and starred a prime Nicholson and it was made in one of the golden decades for film. But it's still good

    :lol: That sounds like hell. I wouldn't even enjoy terrorizing them with my skills because I would feel contaminated and dirtied just by venturing over into their habitat. I've seen a few things you've posted about modern movie fans and that was enough for me.

    No desire to do that either. Some of my favourite posters on here have been Classic posters and I like many posters who post on there but there's a certain type that really rubs me up the wrong way and I'm not alluding to anyone in this thread
     
  9. Flavius

    Flavius Member Full Member

    141
    152
    Nov 13, 2023
    In general Usyk is better than Ali in almost every aspect except the chin and reflexes where Ali has a slide advantage. In everything other like footwork, powerful punches, defense, ring cutting, ring IQ, combinations, stance, punch versatility, distance control we should favor Usyk over Ali.
     
  10. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

    66,478
    87,444
    Aug 21, 2012
    Ali's knockdowns:

    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    Usyk's knockdowns:



    ESB "Yeah, Ali has a definite chin edge."
     
    Cyrion and CST80 like this.
  11. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    17,640
    38,102
    Jan 14, 2022
    TBH I do hate these kind of threads now because you get two camps on either side that are both too biased in one direction.

    And then you get people discrediting both fighters.

    Ali takes body shots better, quicker handspeed, better combination puncher, arguably a harder puncher since he stopped iron chinned fighters like Foreman.

    Usyk better technical skills, better body puncher, better at using angles, better defence.

    You're talking about two entirely different strengths though.

    Ali is a more of a naturally athletic gifted fighter who was unorthodox kind of like RJJ. They weren't textbook but still very effective with their incredible speed and athleticism.

    Usyk is more of a text book technical fighter with very few weaknesses.

    Ali on paper has more weaknesses due to that fact he does alot more things technically wrong than Usyk.

    But Ali is still highly effective at what does.

    I don't think either fighter has ever fought someone that closely resembles Usyk or Ali either.

    The closest for Usyk would be Michael Hunter.

    The closest for Ali would be Karl Mildenberger.

    But in reality neither of those fighters resemble Ali or Usyk at all.

    Would Usyk struggle with Ali's speed and movement ?

    Would Ali have trouble adapting to Usyk's southpaw style and angles ?

    No one knows.

    I just don't like that people feel the need to discredit either fighter to get their point across.

    Both fighters were the best Heavyweights of their era for different reasons.

    Ali's resume is just unreal TBH with the sheer amount of quality Heavyweights he beat.

    And Usyk's Heavyweight resume shows his P4P qualities being a smaller man beating considerably bigger Heavyweights.

    Let's appreciate both and just say in reality no one knows what would happen. Because neither fighter has remotely come close to fighting a style that resembles either fighter.
     
  12. gollumsluvslave

    gollumsluvslave Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,077
    6,411
    Dec 20, 2020
    Entirely too sensible and on point for this place mate!
     
    Bokaj, 723, Oddone and 1 other person like this.
  13. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

    66,478
    87,444
    Aug 21, 2012
    I know. The answer to your question is "yes".

    Nobody fights guys with wierdly specific outlier skillsets like these two and cruises through the fight easily.

    I favour Usyk but not because of any particular physical trait.

    I favour him because of his superlative boxing brain. In almost every fight that he has trouble in, he manages to adapt and find the hole in his opponent's game. By the last rounds he is doing stuff that is specifically calculated to blow his opponent out of the ring and to frustrate the other guy's offense. I'm not saying Ali is a dummy, but I am saying that Usyk manages to analyse fights as they progress like few other fighters can.

    Crom sits alone on his mountain.
     
  14. 723

    723 Delusional Old-Head + New Boxing Fan Full Member

    134
    217
    Mar 16, 2026
    Very objective and balanced take, good on you.
     
  15. Mark Anthony

    Mark Anthony Vargas was not an elite fighter Full Member

    8,789
    4,153
    May 17, 2023
    I agree with what you're saying about Ali but Usyk fought Holmes or Mike Tyson the way he fought Rico he would have been beaten, Rico wouldn't have got past the 1st or second round vs Tyson.