Oleksandr Usyk vs Muhammad Ali

I know that, I am saying he did have decent power, & Usyk is if anything rated lower for power.
The specific things I mentioned that Flavius sid Usyk rates higher than Ai for seem implausible.

 

The Classicist is obliged to pick Ali, lest he be ostracized from the fedora/cigar class where his arcane anecdotes meet some echo and not dull indifference. Purely a desperate ego-driven response.

But in truth, Ali never faced a fighter as seamlessly good as Usyk, with the size to go along with it. At best, this is a toss up. All things on even, I lean toward the southpaw to win by 2 or 3 rounds. Lay the mortgage on it.

 

Why 12? Because Usyk has never gone 15 in his life and Ali won a dozen fights between the 13th and 15th rounds?

12 rounders weren't even title fights in Ali's era.

Ali wins. On points or via late-round stoppage (between the 13th and 15th rounds), when he takes Usyk into the deep waters where he's never been.

 

Don't think that is fair Seamus.

Sure many traditionalists are biased-& you used colorful language, but many are not operating in a "class" but we al have absorbed biases.
Mainly 2 points: it is a sweeping negative judgement unsupported by the facts that all opinions are informed by being "desperate.
Or ego-although it may to some degree be.

But do you not know that the mirror-image of these prejudices are those who may mindlessly favor the moderns?
Yes I believe the reasons why sports improves on average over time, but that does not prove who wins in each individual match up-especially when size is comparable.
Some factors like fighting often & championship rounds & tougher circumstances favored past generations.

Now the fight may well be a toss up.
But unless you are fatally, fanatically (desperately) biased, you would be a fool to bet the mortgage on it.
If you say "at best this is a toss up", that shows you would be breathtakingly reckless to bet the house on it.

 

Usyk wins unless this is peak 60s Ali then it's 50/50

 

Ali wins this; he fought everyone in a very strong era, and proved himself time and again. Usyk has only had 8 fights at the weight, one of those against a novice. People are getting REALLY carried away by the hype behind Usyk.

 

Claiming inflated nostalgic notions or conversely recency bias aren’t arguments per se.

They’re merely the assignation of motives that are assumed to drive what otherwise is believed to be a flawed argument.

Actually addressing and dealing with the arguments/points at hand is where it’s at baby.

 

It’s interesting to ponder and wonder if, like the dual consideration of a pre and post exile Ali, we’re dealing with a juxtaposition of the CW and HW versions of Usyk.

I would say that CW Usyk was that much more energised, mobile and faster in all regards as compared to his HW self.

I might also add that, in relative terms, the bigger, slower HWs may well have belied/masked the presence of those depreciations in Usyk’s game.

I’ve long felt that, like Ali in his second career. Usyk redesigned himself somewhat - specifically upon his entry into the HW division.

In Usyk’s case, the redesigning was him specifically adding weight for better strength and punch and re-purposing himself to be a slayer of the slower, relative giants.

Of course, while Uysk has already seen his best days and also appeared ill prepared for the opponent in question, it’s interesting that his opponent Verhoeven displayed a rare tank for a big man - an exceptional to the rule.

That exceptional tank in its own right causes Olek big problems though all credit to him for coming through with a terrific KO at the end.

Ironically, at an overweight and lethargic 233 1/2 lbs, Verhoeven kind of took the same advantage that Usyk was able to take against the bigger, slower and limited tank HWs he overcame.